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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 5, 2009 8:46:43 GMT -5
I agree that Kimball should have the protection from magic scroll. We'll need additional scroll tubes for each person holding a scroll.
Didn't we get a brooch and a staff off of the druid? Were those identified? Didn't someone say something about the brooch stopping magic missiles? Was that a guess or actual knowledge? If that is the case I wonder if it is better for Morvan than Kazan who has it now. Morvan has a lot more spells which could be disrupted. We are now both 5th level magic users so those spells are equivalent but he has all of the slow cleric spells in addition. Of course we could also use Shield or Mirror Image.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 5, 2009 10:38:26 GMT -5
It wasn't identified. Basil read the rune which said something like "absorb" and we inferred the rest. He was also the only enemy caster who was never targeted by MM during the battle.
Good call giving the scroll to Kimball. I know Raven liked them.
I'm of the opinion that a +2 shield is better than a +1/+4 shield. My primary fear is definitely getting charged and not getting shot at or targeted by MM. Do you guys disagree?
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Post by venger on Jun 5, 2009 16:51:45 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that a +2 shield is better than a +1/+4 shield. My primary fear is definitely getting charged and not getting shot at or targeted by MM. Do you guys disagree? The people with the best AC and/or 100HP are going up front.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 6, 2009 17:21:43 GMT -5
With a +2 shield, Zinc would have a regular AC of -2 and a flatfooted AC of -1. I presume that would be the best in the party, so I would go behind Basil, who has an AC of -1 and 100 HP.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 7, 2009 15:26:49 GMT -5
Right now I believe the party HP/AC is Character | HP | AC | Basil | 100 | -1 (+2 chain, 18 DEX) | Zinc | 44 | -1 (+1 plate, +1/+4 shield, 15 DEX) | Kimball | 46 | 0 (elven chain, +2 ring, 17 DEX) | Kazan | 41 | 0 (bracer AC 5, +1 ring, 18 DEX) | Morvan | 25 | 3 (elven chain, +1 ring, +1? buckler) |
I see Kazan, Zinc and Kimball as basically equivalent in these terms with Kimball able to produce a lot more damage against the opponents, followed by Zinc (better melee) and Kazan (better offensive spells). Assuming we can do two across the front then I would suggest Basil Kimball Kazan Zinc Morvan This way we benefit from Kimball's tracking and surprise. Also his shots are not blocked by taller party member. Basil can melee or use a druid/bard ability. Zinc and Kazan can see over the heads of the first rank to cast spells. Morvan backs us up with distance spells. With only one across I like Kimball Basil Zinc Kazan Morvan I would still have Kimball in front for the surprise and tracking. Also he can do more damage in a round than anyone. Basil can heal Kimball or move ahead of him as needed if it gets to melee. Zinc can still see over the front two to do turning and spells and is within 10' of everyone for protection. Kazan and Morvan wait for space to cast spells. Assuming the passage is only 5' wide then only one of the opponents will be able to come at us at a time. I would stack Kimball up against anything we have met.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 7, 2009 20:24:15 GMT -5
Just to clarify, I'm keeping the tower shield until Hemming's shield gets identified as +2 or better. I think it's a good call to swap a +1 shield for an unknown magic shield, but I'm not swapping a +1/+4 shield for one that has at least an even chance of being only +1.
And Zinc has 44 HP, not 45.
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Post by venger on Jun 8, 2009 15:37:10 GMT -5
Assuming the passage is only 5' wide then only one of the opponents will be able to come at us at a time. I would stack Kimball up against anything we have met. Basil is a tank (best AC -1) with 100HP. He can heal 10-60% of damage sustained (3x a day) and cast multple CLWs. If anyone is going first in a narrow corridor it's him. Kimball walks out of every fight chewed to hell because he is AC 3 when using the bow. New rule: When Kimball's HP is 50% or less he is switching to sword and shield. He has 46 HP.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 8, 2009 16:14:40 GMT -5
I think Kimball's best defense is a strong offense. Kill them before they can hit you. Fighting against the Marten clan was not very representative of the typical adventure. They all got two or more attacks a round with at least one of them going before Kimball's initiative. Most things we meet won't have that advantage.
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Post by venger on Jun 8, 2009 18:58:37 GMT -5
Kimball is effectively AC 5 when something is charging him and he's firing the bow. As for killing it before it gets to him -- it's difficult to time it right, segment-wise, to get them in point blank range before they close to melee.
That's a heck of a sacrifice in defense.
Ideally Basil and Zinc should engage the bad guys in melee with their super low AC's and Kimball can walk around, outside of melee, shooting their opponents in the back.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 8, 2009 19:00:42 GMT -5
When fighting two-abreast in a corridor, here's how it should go in the first round. Kimball states that he's shooting at whatever comes into 30 feet first on his side. Basil sets for charge, to strike whatever charges at Kimball. Kimball should take down whatever is coming at him first, and Basil will take down whatever is coming at him second. After that, we can probably shift around in melee to give us three facings and put us from:
BK ZX X
to
B KZ XX
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Post by Ginger on Jul 7, 2009 17:11:21 GMT -5
Game on Sunday!! What are we going to do?
We're in a doorway faced with 5 or 6 gnolls and a dog/wolf/beast on a leash. My vote is that Kimball split fire, Basil, Zinc and Jesper charge, and Morvan and Kazan do whatever it is that they do. Priority seems to be preventing them from fleeing.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 8, 2009 8:03:18 GMT -5
If there were more of them Kazan would use Sleep. In the first round I think Kimball can take out two and Basil, Zinc and Jesper can take out another 2 or 3. The rest should fall in the next round with Basil and Jesper getting two attacks. Kazan will either set for charge or charge whichever gnoll Zinc goes after. No point in Morvan rushing into combat or wasting a spell.
Do you really think they are going to flee? If so we should make our charges along the edge of the room to catch any going towards the exits.
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Post by venger on Jul 9, 2009 7:19:02 GMT -5
The room has multiple exits -- if they're smart, the leader will send one or two to get reinforcements while the rest attack.
I think Sleep might be good here. It's fast (1 segment), you'll get 2-8 of them and I can't see there being much weaker monsters here that it'll be more effective on.
Split fire pretty much means Kimball will attack last in the round. If there's nobody within 30 feet he'll either melee or take three shots at the leader at short range and (assuming he hits) do 12-27 damage.
Morvan and Zinc need to start using their crossbows again.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 13, 2009 14:54:22 GMT -5
Any comments or criticisms from yesterday? I think things went pretty well. The "beast-boy" thing could have become a major clusterf*ck, but was instead merely a fiasco.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jul 13, 2009 19:46:06 GMT -5
Any comments or criticisms from yesterday? I think things went pretty well. The "beast-boy" thing could have become a major clusterf*ck, but was instead merely a fiasco. I had an urge to cry "Oh the humanity!" but then I realized "Oh the beastmanity!" doesn't have quite the same ring.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 14, 2009 8:44:04 GMT -5
I think we did pretty well. Overall we used a small number of spells and kept damage to a tolerable level.
Kazan - used a couple of Sleep spells to slow down the gnolls. was useless in melee and against the magic user. provided plan to surprise the durin.
Kimball - lots of killing. terrible rolling. shot Basil in the back. suspect tactics - ignored beast boy corridor and started searching elsewhere while Basil went alone; shouted at knoll patrol alerting other knolls in rooms; used sword against pike wielding knolls.
Basil - lots of killing. took lots of damage by attacking large groups singlehandedly. could have used first shapechange to more effect (check all doors; use a different shape so you could use flying later). need to use charm and poetics more at the start of combat.
Zinc - good in melee. early use of Find Traps and PfE 10'. unfortunate charm and wasted hold person.
Morvan - held back until needed. good use of PfE on charmed Zinc. good Sleep on gnoll patrol. soaked up a lot of damage quickly.
Jesper - good in melee. added to confusion by banging loudly on wall to alert everyone.
Clearly we do better if we can limit the number of opponents we are facing. We did some nice reconnaissance on the barracks but we didn't use that information.
We still have the magic user to handle. Hopefully there isn't a back door or a spell she can escape with. Assuming 7th level with 18 INT that would give her 6, 5, 3, 2. I believe she has used 1: magic missile, charm person 2: invisibility, stinking cloud 3: lightning bolt, protection from normal missiles(?) 4: polymorph other, minor globe
It would be good to take her out before the PfE Morvan cast wears off. Though I assume we have additional copies of that spell. I would guess she would either Wizard Lock the door or cast Invisibility again. We could use subterfuge to see if she was there - have someone say in gnoll or Koth (Jesper?) that the intruders have been defeated, or Zinc can say he has subdued everyone with Hold Person.
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Post by venger on Jul 14, 2009 10:04:00 GMT -5
Kimball - lots of killing. terrible rolling. shot Basil in the back. suspect tactics - ignored beast boy corridor and started searching elsewhere while Basil went alone; shouted at knoll patrol alerting other knolls in rooms; used sword against pike wielding knolls. I think Kimball did pretty awesome. I'm claiming the most-kills trophy. A) re: terrible rolls- For those terrible rolls there were also some pretty awesome rolls, like two 18s to hit a pair of invisible dwarves. B) re: shooting basil in the back- I'm going out on a limb and say it's not Kimball's fault Basil got shot in the back. When we declared actions Kimball had an unobstructed shot (at the invisible creatures). Then Basil charged into melee. If Basil had skirted the edge of the room and come up on the other side of the combat (plenty of movement rate to do so with his charge) then he wouldn't have been shot in the back. C) re: beastboy- There are 4 other party members besides Kimball who could have helped Basil dispatch the lone beast boy. I figured between the 5 of you you would be able to subdue a non-combatant monster. D) re: pikes- That whole time Kimball was only hit once by a gnoll with a two-handed sword, thanks to use of longsword & shield. The rest of his sustained damage came from those ice demon breath weapon attacks. E) re: yelling- The gnoll patrol was already shouting "ALERT ALERT INTRUDERS" so shouting back wasn't really going to make much difference. Basil - lots of killing. took lots of damage by attacking large groups singlehandedly. could have used first shapechange to more effect (check all doors; use a different shape so you could use flying later). need to use charm and poetics more at the start of combat. Basil engaged them and took damage, sure, but he has 100 hit points and can heal 10-60% of his wounds 3x a day as well as cast CLW. He was doing a fine job of meat-shielding. They directed their attacks against him and we killed them from the flanks. Zinc - good in melee. early use of Find Traps and PfE 10'. unfortunate charm and wasted hold person. I say the PfE 10' radius and the Find Traps were pretty much wasted considering we didn't find any traps or run into any devils during those durations. Morvan - held back until needed. good use of PfE on charmed Zinc. good Sleep on gnoll patrol. soaked up a lot of damage quickly. He took an unfortunate magic missile and crossbow bolt but probably couldn't have avoided taking that damage. He lost a lightning bolt spell which sucks. Maybe he should have the item we think is a brooch of shielding? Clearly we do better if we can limit the number of opponents we are facing. We did some nice reconnaissance on the barracks but we didn't use that information. We did fine reconnaissance on the barracks but rolled a random encounter just before we were going to open the first door. Otherwise we probably would have killed a couple rooms of gnolls before alerting the magic-user. I'm convinced now that using the longsword/shield against gnolls is preferable to using the longbow - Kimball suffers little to no damage in combat and one-hit kills every time. Longbow minimum damage won't kill a gnoll and a round of bad rolls while engaged in melee will open Kimball up to a world of hurt from halberd-wielding bad guys. Kimball would have been butchered on the wrong side of the Stinking Cloud if he'd tried to use his bow the whole time.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 14, 2009 11:11:02 GMT -5
Re: shooting Basil in the back, I think everyone could do better when it comes to being precise with movement. If you're charging someone and have plenty of time to engage in combat, make sure that you run around to the side when you engage instead of running directly at them. And when you're engaged, take advantage of the movement you're allowed to try to scoot forward/backward/sideways to allow more or fewer of our guys to engage, as necessary.
Re: the Protection from Evil 10' radius, it would have lasted almost the entire session, if not for the 30 rounds spent finding the secret door. But still, generally a bad call on my part. Zinc has 3 personal PfE spells, which will mainly be used as healing spells, probably.
Also, we should give Kazan the Horn. Kimball almost always has something else to do, while Kazan is frequently without an appropriate spell.
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