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Post by venger on Aug 6, 2013 15:23:45 GMT -5
Assuming you do manage to escape, with a ton of treasure, what activities are you planning upon return to civilization?
Please list actions for your characters/suggestions for the party or individuals (ID items, swapping proficiencies, training, selling items, scribing scrolls, making potions, etc, etc, etc.) so that I might prepare in advance. It would be great if we could quickly run down a list when the party gets back to town and not bog the game down so much with non-adventuring/administrative stuff.
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Post by Friedrich on Aug 6, 2013 17:17:26 GMT -5
I would like to try and create some a magic weapon and/or armor but who knows how much time will be available or weather or not a 9th level mage (Mary) will be able to do it.
You said something about a guy who likes to fight with a poisoned spear in the arena. That might be a good match-up for Friedrich, being as how he only fails that save on a 1.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 7, 2013 8:14:55 GMT -5
Our going theory about our Artificer's Hammer is that we can craft a weapon, cast Enchanted Weapon and then pound a Permanency spell onto it.
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Post by venger on Aug 7, 2013 8:56:37 GMT -5
... Find a trainer for Colby to learn a skill off DMG pgs 29-34 (blacksmith, armorer, weaponsmith1,2,3.) Spend 2d6 days + 1d6+1x100GP and 1 language slot. Material costs: (sword +2 = 4000GP, shield +1 = 2500GP) Cast a strength spell to give Colby the ability to use the hammer. Cast (multiple) enchanted weapon/armor spell on the item. Use the permanency hammer. Mary (8 STR) cannot use the hammer even with a Strength spell. Should note as far as material costs, +1 and +2 items are fairly easy to manufacture, though still expensive - but per the DMG: Which also applies to weapons. So availability can be a factor. And further: Sometimes supernatural/fantastical materials (demon-bone, dragonhide, etc.) can be substituted for expensive/rare materials when fabricating magic items, but not so much with the permanency hammer which only functions on metal.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 7, 2013 9:51:40 GMT -5
What about putting other spells permanently on items -shield of protection from normal missiles -torc of shielding -bracers of strength -helmet of invisibility -belt buckle of levitation
We could try reusing the ultralight plate mail for material of the highest quality. If we could figure out how to reforge it. We could see if the armorer in Devonshire ever figured out how.
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Post by venger on Aug 7, 2013 10:14:18 GMT -5
What about putting other spells permanently on items -shield of protection from normal missiles -torc of shielding -bracers of strength -helmet of invisibility -belt buckle of levitation The 6th level spell Enchant an Item is required, expressly as described in the PHB. Time, risk of failure, rare components, etc. all being possible factors. We could try reusing the ultralight plate mail for material of the highest quality. If we could figure out how to reforge it. We could see if the armorer in Devonshire ever figured out how. Rodrigo could never get the forge hot enough.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 7, 2013 10:20:27 GMT -5
Trommer has 25 party pearls. I thought we had a chest of pearl dust at some point from grinding up a bunch of them.
Trommer would like to get the Pearl of Protection from Fire recharged (-18), look for a druid to get trained and a bag of chalk dust.
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Post by venger on Aug 7, 2013 10:48:53 GMT -5
Mary has 900GP in pearls. Trommer has 2500GP in pearls. Colby has a 500GP pearl.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 7, 2013 10:49:34 GMT -5
Mary had a coffer with 900gp of pearls.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 7, 2013 11:00:13 GMT -5
Can we beat additional bonuses into the ultralight plate?
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Post by venger on Aug 7, 2013 11:43:14 GMT -5
Mary had a coffer with 900gp of pearls. Correct. They are in a coffer. Can we beat additional bonuses into the ultralight plate? Once Permanency is used an item cannot be further enchanted. Also Enchanted Weapon, or the variant the party must create to enchant armor, only functions on ordinary, non-magical items.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 7, 2013 13:32:46 GMT -5
We have a number of adamantine coins for use with the green box and armband. Some of them have already been depleted of their charge. We could try alloying those with steel to make weapons. How much adamantine do you need for a battle axe? How much do we have?
Can you destroy a magic weapon to get the raw material for a new magic weapons? For instance, Angvmar is a two-handed sword. Assuming it is made of meteorite steel, could we melt it down and make 1 +3 bastard sword and 2 +3 battle axes? Or 6 +3 scimitars? I am comparing the relative weights listed in the PHB.
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Post by venger on Aug 7, 2013 15:35:02 GMT -5
We have a number of adamantine coins for use with the green box and armband. Some of them have already been depleted of their charge. Depleted power discs are reduced to white-hot slag and unrecoverable. The ultimate battery recycling program. How much adamantine do you need for a battle axe? When the party has a trained crafter we can discuss the amount of raw material (ore/ingots) that will needed per item. I have a crafting list somewhere. Can you destroy a magic weapon to get the raw material for a new magic weapons? A legendary smith like Weyland would be able to do so with the appropriate time & facilities. It is less likely that an amateur smith would be successful in that endeavor. For instance, Angvmar is a two-handed sword. Assuming it is made of meteorite steel, could we melt it down and make 1 +3 bastard sword and 2 +3 battle axes? Or 6 +3 scimitars? I am comparing the relative weights listed in the PHB. Melting something down is only going to yield a fraction of that weight. For an anecdotal example, in ASOIAF, Ned Stark's Valyrian greatsword Ice was reforged into two longsword equivalents. So that's like a 50% loss. I should note Bensarion is totally rolling around in his grave at the thought of melting down Angvmar.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 8, 2013 7:58:50 GMT -5
... Find a trainer for Colby to learn a skill off DMG pgs 29-34 (blacksmith, armorer, weaponsmith1,2,3.) Spend 2d6 days + 1d6+1x100GP and 1 language slot. Material costs: (sword +2 = 4000GP, shield +1 = 2500GP) Cast a strength spell to give Colby the ability to use the hammer. Cast (multiple) enchanted weapon/armor spell on the item. Use the permanency hammer. Mary (8 STR) cannot use the hammer even with a Strength spell. Is Youssef stronger than Mary? How strong does one need to be? Colby is 11, I think. I suppose that a MU would just keep casting Strength spells until he or she rolled high enough. I'm a big fan of spending a ton of time doing this, especially if Colby is raised without his sleeping curse being removed.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 8, 2013 8:52:19 GMT -5
Colby can take a Strength spell on his thief class giving him a maximum of 17 instead of 15. Youssef has a low strength (< 10).
If we had access to the Academy we could try to hire some strong 7th level caster types. The rule says you have to rest a lot after creating an item. But it doesn't say someone else can't use the permanency hammer as soon as you are done with it.
Assuming the caster is the only one who can cast Enchanted Weapon and we want something with more than 3 pluses, then we'll need to make some scrolls with the spell on it. That way they can use the memorized 4th level spells as well as the scrolls.
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Post by venger on Aug 8, 2013 12:15:20 GMT -5
Is Youssef stronger than Mary? How strong does one need to be? Colby is 11, I think. I suppose that a MU would just keep casting Strength spells until he or she rolled high enough. Magic-users only get 1d4 from the Strength spell. Youssef has 10 STR. The hammer requires a 14 STR. Assuming the caster is the only one who can cast Enchanted Weapon and we want something with more than 3 pluses, then we'll need to make some scrolls with the spell on it. That way they can use the memorized 4th level spells as well as the scrolls. Now you're getting it! However, I should note: With basic training in smithing and some practice, Colby will be able to pound enchantments (+1 or +2) into bronze, iron, steel, etc. Advanced metallurgy techniques are closely guarded secrets. Rare are the smiths who know methods of working the special meteoric iron known as "star-metal". Rarer still are those elven/dwarven craftsmen who can work mithral or adamantite - these mythical elements being so scarce, most human smiths won't see them in their lifetimes.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 8, 2013 15:16:59 GMT -5
Even with only +1 or +2 items there is a lot we could use. Here is a list of items we could make. I think we have the treasure to cover the cost. Item | Characters | Number | x.p. | g.p. | time | cost | +2 arrows | Danakes | 10 | 50 | 300 | 5 | 3000 | +1 bolts | Azhbar | 10 | 20 | 120 | 2 | 1200 | +2 bolts | Azhbar | 10 | 50 | 300 | 5 | 3000 | +2 shields | Friedrich, Dan, Mamnoon, Trommer, Azhbar, Basmadoos, Ingrid | 7 | 500 | 5000 | 35 | 35000 | +2 battle axe | Friedrich, for non-magical creatures | 1 | 800 | 5000 | 8 | 5000 | +2 daggers | Mary, Youssef, Colby | 3 | 200 | 1500 | 6 | 4500 | +2 scimitar | Azhbar, Basmadoos | 2 | 750 | 6000 | 15 | 12000 | Total | | | | | 76 | 63700 |
I am not sure what Bolo and Nordel have or need. I am not sure if we will allow the bolts and arrows but those would certainly be nice to have for our specialists. They may require special wood and fletching as well. Trommer could use a magic shield when he isn't using his anti-magic shield. Paavo is likely to switch to the shield we got from Tzila, so the shield broach will be available. Colby and Youssef would likely need separate training for each of shields, weapons and arrows/bolts. If Youssef were to do something he would prefer the airborne weapons.
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Post by venger on Aug 8, 2013 18:05:59 GMT -5
Annoyingly, I can come up with a bunch of fantasy-plausible reasons why you can't make magic arrows with the permanency hammer but no good reasons why you can't make crossbow bolts... except for that we don't allow magic ammunition in the campaign due to overpowered weapon specialization.
So I think I'll allow you to make magic bolts (but probably limit it to +1's) because crossbows are cool.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 9, 2013 7:11:43 GMT -5
What about making +2 Rings of Protection?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 9, 2013 7:56:26 GMT -5
The hammer can only be used to fashion arms and armor.
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Post by Bolo on Aug 9, 2013 8:08:02 GMT -5
we don't allow magic ammunition in the campaign due to overpowered weapon specialization. I used to entirely agree with this, but as our characters advance in level, more and more we are encountering adversaries that cannot be hit with nonmagical weapons. ISTM that makes bow specialization increasingly useless, rather than overpowered.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 9, 2013 8:18:46 GMT -5
Colby has a dagger of throwing and a +1 defender, so he doesn't really need anything else. Azhbar already has a +1 scimitar for backup and doesn't really need to spend 6K GP for a slight upgrade, especially if he's getting awesome bolts. He also doesn't carry a shield, but Haddiq will take a +2 shield instead. Are dervishes averse to metal shields? Will we need to add cool bone accents to make them acceptable?
With a +1 bolt, Azhbar will have a THAC0 of 6 within 60 feet and hit for 2(d8+4)/2(d10+4), each round. Not quite as beastly as a long bow specialist with a strength bow, but that extra 30 feet of point blank range is very helpful.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 9, 2013 8:22:54 GMT -5
we don't allow magic ammunition in the campaign due to overpowered weapon specialization. I used to entirely agree with this, but as our characters advance in level, more and more we are encountering adversaries that cannot be hit with nonmagical weapons. ISTM that makes bow specialization increasingly useless, rather than overpowered. Once Nordel hits 7th level and can fire 3 arrows per round, it'll be back to being overpowered.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 9, 2013 8:45:58 GMT -5
We are heading towards the Temple of Evil Elementals. Elementals require a +2 or better weapon to hit. So everyone should, at a minimum, have a weapon they can use against an elemental.
Why is Azhbar +4 with a +1 bolt?
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Post by Ginger on Aug 9, 2013 8:47:02 GMT -5
+2 at point blank range, +1 for being a dervish, +1 for the bolt.
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Post by Bolo on Aug 9, 2013 8:47:52 GMT -5
Once Nordel hits 7th level and can fire 3 arrows per round, it'll be back to being overpowered. Not against adversaries that can only be hit by magical weapons.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 9, 2013 8:50:16 GMT -5
I thought that since bracers and RoP provide armor protection and are made of metal, they would qualify.
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Post by venger on Aug 9, 2013 8:56:45 GMT -5
Item | Characters | Number | x.p. | g.p. | time | cost | +2 arrows | Danakes | 10 | 50 | 300 | 5 | 3000 | +1 bolts | Azhbar | 10 | 20 | 120 | 2 | 1200 | +2 bolts | Azhbar | 10 | 50 | 300 | 5 | 3000 | +2 shields | Friedrich, Dan, Mamnoon, Trommer, Azhbar, Basmadoos, Ingrid | 7 | 500 | 5000 | 35 | 35000 | +2 battle axe | Friedrich, for non-magical creatures | 1 | 800 | 5000 | 8 | 5000 | +2 daggers | Mary, Youssef, Colby | 3 | 200 | 1500 | 6 | 4500 | +2 scimitar | Azhbar, Basmadoos | 2 | 750 | 6000 | 15 | 12000 | Total | | | | | 76 | 63700 |
Chart does not factor in cost of facilities (which includes non-exotic raw materials & tools) or time to manufacture individual items. Otherwise pretty good. The hammer can only be used to fashion arms and armor. I wouldn't say that... What about making +2 Rings of Protection? The issue with this is that Enchanted Weapon or whatever variant is researched for Enchanted Armor won't work on anything but weapons or armor. This goes back to requiring Enchant an Item. we don't allow magic ammunition in the campaign due to overpowered weapon specialization. I used to entirely agree with this, but as our characters advance in level, more and more we are encountering adversaries that cannot be hit with nonmagical weapons. ISTM that makes bow specialization increasingly useless, rather than overpowered. Technically that statement isn't true anymore, as the party has magic arrows AND a magic shortbow. So +1 ammunition, while rare, does exist in the campaign. And if it exists, it can be crafted... Are dervishes averse to metal shields? Will we need to add cool bone accents to make them acceptable? Not averse to metal shields or even chain mail when not in the hot, hot desert. Why is Azhbar +4 with a +1 bolt? I had to puzzle that one out too and then I remembered he's a Dervish. +2 at point blank range, +1 for being a dervish, +1 for the bolt. You beat me to it. Not against adversaries that can only be hit by magical weapons. See above, re: the party actually possessing magic arrows. I thought that since bracers and RoP provide armor protection and are made of metal, they would qualify. I definitely agree, anything made of metal should qualify. The enchanting process is the hold up. See above, re: enchant an item vs. enchanted weapon.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 9, 2013 9:08:19 GMT -5
Once Nordel hits 7th level and can fire 3 arrows per round, it'll be back to being overpowered. Not against adversaries that can only be hit by magical weapons. Obviously, but for those that don't, a 7th level bow specialist has vastly more killing power than any other fighter with good magic weaponry. If Nordel had +2 arrows, any boss fight would be trivially easy. Just think of this past fight with the guardian. If Nordel could have hit it with his arrows, it would have been dead really fast.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 9, 2013 9:36:15 GMT -5
Note that currently we don't have Enchanted Weapon. We do have a scroll of Enchant An Item. I suppose Youssef could try to research Enchanted Weapon at the 7th level but he is -25% on non-elemental spells which gives him only 60%.
I still think we can scrap some existing magic items for the material for new items. We don't get anywhere near the value of the item if we try to sell them. So if we can get a better return by reusing the metal then I say we do. We will have to do a full inventory once we are out of this place and have identified everything. I think we have a +1 broadsword, +1 scimitar, +2 two-handed sword (life-stealer), Tzila's armor, +4 falchion (manslayer), 2 +1 shields (assuming we can upgrade to +2).
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