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Post by Ginger on Aug 19, 2013 17:29:29 GMT -5
The Ant-Magic shell would last long enough that you could probably erase or otherwise cover up the runes. Maybe tear off the page with the offending rune.
Once back to Barb-el-Shay, we can find a way to acquire Explosive Runes ourselves to experiment on non-valuable items.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 19, 2013 18:01:33 GMT -5
"large black leather book - generic magic aura" If that's the same aura that a normal spell book gives off and it's not evil, Colby will open it up and cast read magic, as needed.
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Post by Bolo on Aug 19, 2013 19:07:15 GMT -5
Explosive runes detonate "when read", so someone who is unable to read them should be able to safely unbind the book and separate the pages. Then when the runes detonate, they should only destroy the page on which they are written, not the rest of the book.
I imagine that an extraordinarily dextrous halfling could unbind a book with his eyes closed.
Or would dismantling a spellbook ruin it anyway, even without the runes?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 19, 2013 21:09:51 GMT -5
I think read does not necessarily imply understanding. Also, while the grammar is not without ambiguity, I believe it is the book, map, scroll, etc. that is being read and not the runes themselves. The runes I believe are like glyphs and tend to fade into the object unless magical detection is used. So I think I more accurate interpretation of read is open and look at or possibly just open.
In general, dismantling a spellbook is definitely not a good idea. But a normal book is fine.
Other thoughts: -use Change cantrip to transform books into clay or bronze tablets. then read tablet to set off Explosive Rune. tablets should be unaffected by magic fire. then allow duration to end. -open under water. fire trap does not function but I am not sure about explosive runes. use destroy water to dry books quickly. -combine these two options -Dan and/or Haddiq cast Spell Immunity to Explosive Rune on the reader. does the spell not trigger or does the damage not affect the reader?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 19, 2013 21:18:04 GMT -5
We have 6 days back to Pentadastion. Assuming it is calm enough aboard the ship, we should have time to do 18 identifies - 24 if Trommer joins in. We have plenty of pearls and plenty of items. Ignoring the potions and assuming the multiple hand axes and multiple javelins are like items, we have 28 items that need at least one identify. We can just delay our return 1 day and finish ID'ing everything. Any issues with that? No one mentioned any issues with this plan. I think we can start ID'ing.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 19, 2013 22:23:21 GMT -5
We have 6 days back to Pentadastion. Assuming it is calm enough aboard the ship, we should have time to do 18 identifies - 24 if Trommer joins in. We have plenty of pearls and plenty of items. Ignoring the potions and assuming the multiple hand axes and multiple javelins are like items, we have 28 items that need at least one identify. We can just delay our return 1 day and finish ID'ing everything. Any issues with that? No one mentioned any issues with this plan. I think we can start ID'ing. Yes, let's start ID'ing, although I see no reason why we should delay arrival for a day instead of just doing the last batch of identification in the city. Especially because I bet at least one item will require multiple days of identifying.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 20, 2013 8:15:14 GMT -5
Since the rune has to be read in order to go off, how about opening the book in total darkness and ripping...carefully...out the first page? Then close the book and bring it out of the darkness and use Find Traps to see if it is still trapped. Repeat as necessary.
I would thank by the nature of the spell, the book is automatically opened to page with the explosive rune. Then we could attempt to Dispel Magic or use some more poweful form of Erase spell on the trapped page. If successful the page can be put back in with a Mend spell. If it fails only one page is lost.
Is that outside the box? Maybe Colby should research a Erase/Remove Rune/Glyph spell that automatically succeeds.
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Post by venger on Aug 20, 2013 10:06:06 GMT -5
Let me know which of these fine options the party wants to try and on which book and I'll tell you what happens. "large black leather book - generic magic aura" If that's the same aura that a normal spell book gives off and it's not evil, Colby will open it up and cast read magic, as needed. I need a less conditional statement. The book gives off a faint aura of generic magic and does not detect as evil. Is Colby reading it?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 10:48:34 GMT -5
Paavo will use dispel magic on the scroll tube until Dan no longer detects a trap on it. Paavo will be 3" away from everyone else and will only have the holy avenger and a +1 ring of protection.
Assuming the scroll tube is not destroyed he will open it. Dan will again check the contents for traps. If not trapped then Paavo will look at them.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 11:22:05 GMT -5
Do you think it has to be the direct viewing of the book that causes the explosion? For instance, if you opened the book in the dark and then used clairvoyance or a crystal ball to view the book remotely, would that set off the spell? Or what about using a series of mirrors to see a reflection of a page. You could have your Unseen Servant turn pages while you read the reflection.
Regardless, I agree with Colby. No reason to experiment on a valuable book. Let's wait until we can test the hypotheses on cheaper things.
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Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2013 12:03:18 GMT -5
If we wanted to, we could fairly easily test whether "when read" really just means "when opened". Buy a cheap book. Cast Explosive Runes on it. Step back to a safe distance. Cast Unseen Servant. Have the unseen servant open the book. Does it go boom?
Bolo has no magical expertise whatsoever, so he will defer to his companions. But if the party wants him to, he remains willing to try to disassemble the book in the dark with his eyes shut.
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Post by venger on Aug 20, 2013 12:07:33 GMT -5
Assuming the scroll tube is not destroyed he will open it. Dan will again check the contents for traps. If not trapped then Paavo will look at them. Fire Trap goes off. Paavo fails MR, makes his save. Takes 12 points of damage. Scroll 1: Stone Tell, Animate Rock, Spike Stones @ 15th level Scroll 2: Transmute Dust to Water, Part Water, Airy Water @ 20th level Scroll 3: a map to Nagyjat's Labyrinth in the Under-Desert. Scroll 4: a map depicting unfamiliar jungle topography: a river emptying into a very large lake surrounded by swamp and a mountain to the south with a plume of smoke coming from the top.
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Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2013 12:15:45 GMT -5
I agree that it makes sense to wait and do some tests on some cheap books.
I suspect that reading indirectly, either by magic or in a mirror, would still count as reading. But that could be something to test.
How about an unseen servant with a photocopier?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 13:15:16 GMT -5
Unfortunately we don't currently have that spell in our library. So we will have to wait until we can bargain for it before we can run any of these tests. Ironically one of the books that is trapped probably has the spell in it.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2013 13:24:50 GMT -5
Colby will cast Wizard Sight on that new book and one of his spells books, if the magical auras are similar, he will open it. If they are not, he'll wait.
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Post by venger on Aug 20, 2013 14:30:48 GMT -5
I thought I said less conditional.
The books seem similar but under scrutiny of Wizard Sight they reveal subtle differences.
Is Colby reading the book?
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Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2013 15:04:17 GMT -5
I was trying to make the condition as clear as possible. We have a bunch of spell books, Colby will check them all with Wizard Sight and look at the variations. Is the subtle difference with this book similar to the subtle differences that each book currently in our possession displays, or are they all of a type and this is subtly different than them all?
I apologize for being crazy paranoid, but Colby has learned to be extremely caution after reading a symbol of death.
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Post by venger on Aug 20, 2013 15:10:49 GMT -5
Is the subtle difference with this book similar to the subtle differences that each book currently in our possession displays, or are they all of a type and this is subtly different than them all? The latter.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 15:39:18 GMT -5
Let's just identify it along with everything else.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2013 16:03:51 GMT -5
Agreed, lets identify it as an item if its giving off a nonstandard magical aura.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 17:33:11 GMT -5
What does Wizard Sight tell us about the trapped urns?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 17:52:02 GMT -5
We could use Stone Tell to ask what is inside the urns and maybe how to circumvent the trap.
I wonder if we used Stone Tell in the tomb we could learn how to circumvent the explosive runes. You would probably have to be in the location where the book was opened.
I also wonder if using some combination of mud sorcerer symbols would get around the trap. The spell description says that the spellcaster can instruct others on how to use the instrument without triggering the runes. That means you would need to say some words or trace some counter runes before opening the book.
How about if we use ESP on Tzila and try to get her thinking about the books? Maybe her sister showed her how to open the books. I am also down with trying to charm her.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2013 21:35:10 GMT -5
Do the urns feel like they contain anything? Does anything shift as we gently tip them from side to side? Are the traps associated with the sealed top? Maybe we could use a hacksaw to cut off the bottoms.
That's quite a list of items. I count 22 "more"'s, though 8 of them are for the staff. So that means another 4 days to complete everything except the staff and the potions. We'll need more pearls. Does Youssef (our resident elementalist) have any knowledge of or affinity with the staff?
We are definitely heading to Pentadastion. How long we stay is up in the air. If we can train and set-up a magic smithy in Pentadastion then I would say we stay here. But if the situation in the city is such that it wouldn't be safe/prudent then I would say we head back to Barb-el-Shay. The sage we are consulting about the location of the Temple of Elemental Evil is here. But until we figure out how to get past the traps on the books he is not so useful. Can you tell us more about Pentadastion? Is there a mage school here? What is the legal/government structure like? Is there a bazaar here where magic items might be bought and sold?
Paavo will definitely not sail the ship into the city. Of course I am not sure what we would do with the ship once we got back to Barb-el-Shay either. The trail it leaves will make it easy for anyone to find it. Maybe Mamnoon can use a double Growth to get large enough to put the boat in the box. Though putting something with extra-dimensions inside of something else with extra dimensions is probably not a good idea. Are there forests around Pentadastion where we could hide the ship? Or maybe an abandoned building on the outskirts? Maybe we could set-up a large tent around it at night.
We need to make a decision about Tzila. I take it from Colby's silence that he is not volunteering to take her to Fizzi. That leaves a few options: kill her, maim her (cut out her tongue), use a soul gem on her (don't we still have one), use talisman of pure good on her, drag her back with us and hope Fizzi has a better idea, release her. We could try charming her but with her high wisdom and intelligence it is unlikely to last long.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2013 22:36:02 GMT -5
We can try using There/Not There on the urns to get their contents without opening them. I think that spellbook is in the Barb-el-Shay vault, so we might need to wait until we get there. Before trying it out on the trapped urns, Colby will try it out on non-trapped containers to see if we can use the spell to separate the contents of a container from the container itself.
Regarding Tzila, I don't see why it's worth risking insta-death to teleport her to Fizzi when we can just spend an extra few weeks to travel there, especially if we need to head back to Barb-el-Shay as it is to access the vault and and the College.
I feel 1000% justified at my frustrating caution at opening the Vacuous Grimoire.
How do the robes of protection function? Like a cloak of protection +2, or like +2 padded armor?
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 21, 2013 8:38:31 GMT -5
Youssef will attempt to learn Charm Person, Suggestion and Cauthen's Infatuous Love Spell. He plans to get Tzila to cooperate with us, at least long enough to tell us what we want to know about the books and the temple. Let me know which spells he successfully learns.
Paavo will allow Tzila some freedom within the ship. She is free to move around the hold without any bounds or a gag with the requirement that she must wear this belt upon which Silence 15' will be cast. We will station guards at the bottom of the stairs and at the doors. We will watch her closely to make sure she doesn't try to escape or cast a spell. If she does not submit to being rebound before the end of the spell we will forcefully restrain her.
In return for this freedom he will ask her to answer some questions for us. A simple nod of the head will suffice for now. -Do you know how to open these books without setting off the runes? -Do you know where the Temple of Elemental Evil is? -Can you draw a map to the Temple? -Can you draw a floor plan for the interior of the Temple? -Do know where Tzolo would keep her spellbooks?
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 21, 2013 9:29:25 GMT -5
Doesn't Friedrich have the Helm of Telepathy? That might make the questioning easier.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 21, 2013 9:46:54 GMT -5
Good thinking. Youssef will borrow the helm of telepathy and attempt to suggest to Tzila that providing us truthful and complete answers is the best way to gain our trust and effect her release. He will also listen to her thoughts as Paavo asks her these questions.
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Post by Wolfgar on Aug 21, 2013 9:59:53 GMT -5
We should decide who gets to use the Gem of Insight since it takes months to work on a person. Assuming it won't take you above 18, that rules out most of the clerics and magic-users. Paavo could use it though I think he is close to an 18 wisdom (and he is angling for the gauntlets). Ingrid would be a good candidate though she has already benefited once from a wisdom raising magic. I would vote for Trommer. Higher intelligence will help him learn magic-user spells, higher wisdom will help him against mind effecting magic. A better perception will help since he is in the front.
Now if we could get Tzila to use the Vacuous Grimoire, that might solve some problems. Her wisdom could possibly drop below what she needs to use 6th level spells.
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Post by Ginger on Aug 21, 2013 10:06:20 GMT -5
Haddiq only has 16 WIS, and at 8th level, it's not going to otherwise max out anytime soon, so he'd love to get it.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Aug 21, 2013 11:20:35 GMT -5
Since Trommer is now 10th level Ranger Lord, he will attract his followers. So whatever magical arms and armor not used by anyone can be used (2-24 depending upon the rolls) or save some for when more henchmen show up. If we are lucky perhaps someone of Tzila's size and shape shows up.
He can also fully use the all non-written magic items which pertain to clairaudience, clairvoyance, ESP, and telepathy.
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