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Post by Wolfgar on Sept 7, 2007 14:18:25 GMT -5
As a point of clarification, the brooch is inscribed with weird symbols, which, when read with Raven's helm, say TORMTOR. The symbols are similar to those on the ewer. TORMTOR is a proper name (or acronym) or magical writing, since Raven's helm doesn't provide a translation for it. The brooch doesn't radiate magic. Adreno Callaghan and Raven, when scanning the dark elf books, find Tormtor as the surname, or more probably clan or family name, of several priests. Are you saying that the word TORMTOR is a romanization of the symbols on the brooch using phonemic transcription? That is to say does it provide a pronunciation guide? If that is the case it is interesting that the helm provides pronunciations for proper nouns while for other words it provides a direct translation. Does the drow language appear to be character or symbol based? Can we use proper names in the books to give us a pronunciation guide for common symbols?
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Post by Ginger on Sept 7, 2007 14:37:21 GMT -5
Is the TORMTOR language the same language that the symbols which made up the five demon names from the summoning room? Those would provide added clues. Perhaps we could find a linguist who could come up with the pronunciation.
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Post by venger on Sept 7, 2007 14:44:14 GMT -5
Are you saying that the word TORMTOR is a romanization of the symbols on the brooch using phonemic transcription? That is to say does it provide a pronunciation guide? If that is the case it is interesting that the helm provides pronunciations for proper nouns while for other words it provides a direct translation. Does the drow language appear to be character or symbol based? Can we use proper names in the books to give us a pronunciation guide for common symbols? It's a good idea, but... What if Tormtor is to _________ as George is to Jorge? (HOR-hey) Just because you can read the word doesn't mean you can pronounce it correctly in their language. And the only means we have of determining if we're actually saying these words right, and not just talkin' gibberish, is speaking to the dead Drow or somehow activating the ewer.
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Post by Ginger on Sept 7, 2007 16:12:39 GMT -5
I think Peking/Beijing is a better example. Since a proper noun doesn't really have a meaning other than the pronunciation, the comprehend languages spell would just transliterate it. Surely through using several drow books we could find enough proper nouns to determine the pronunciation of the words on the ewer. Given that Dell is a genius and has thiefly linguistic skills, he'll get it. If that doesn't work, we could question the troglodytes. Since the ewer was in their possession, it's likely the drow told them how to use it.
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Post by venger on Sept 7, 2007 17:04:34 GMT -5
I think Peking/Beijing is a better example. Since a proper noun doesn't really have a meaning other than the pronunciation, the comprehend languages spell would just transliterate it. Surely through using several drow books we could find enough proper nouns to determine the pronunciation of the words on the ewer. Given that Dell is a genius and has thiefly linguistic skills, he'll get it. If that doesn't work, we could question the troglodytes. Since the ewer was in their possession, it's likely the drow told them how to use it. dictionary.reference.com/translate/This online utility will translate Chinese into English, much like I'm imagining the Helm of Comprehend Languages would, but it gives you no clue how to pronounce the words. Given enough time Dell might be able to learn to read Drow but I don't see how he is ever going to learn to pronounce the words correctly unless he has heard them spoken. How is he going to know if he's saying them right without corroboration? Dell: "Tormtor, grogmak sokohar!" Raven: "That's some fine sounding Drow, Dell." You don't have to convince me, though. Just Dana.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 17:43:37 GMT -5
As a point of clarification, the brooch is inscribed with weird symbols, which, when read with Raven's helm, say TORMTOR. The symbols are similar to those on the ewer. TORMTOR is a proper name (or acronym) or magical writing, since Raven's helm doesn't provide a translation for it. The brooch doesn't radiate magic. Adreno Callaghan and Raven, when scanning the dark elf books, find Tormtor as the surname, or more probably clan or family name, of several priests. Are you saying that the word TORMTOR is a romanization of the symbols on the brooch using phonemic transcription? That is to say does it provide a pronunciation guide? If that is the case it is interesting that the helm provides pronunciations for proper nouns while for other words it provides a direct translation. Does the drow language appear to be character or symbol based? Can we use proper names in the books to give us a pronunciation guide for common symbols? Is the TORMTOR language the same language that the symbols which made up the five demon names from the summoning room? Those would provide added clues. Perhaps we could find a linguist who could come up with the pronunciation. Yes, and no. The helm has provided a pronunciation of the particular symbols on the brooch, which happen to represent a proper name. It is unclear to you, Dell, and the Academy whether or not the language on the brooch, and in the books, is phoneme based, or instead an ideographic language. In the latter case, the symbols translated as TORMTOR would be representative of the idea of that family group. The symbols on the wall, which have been represented by the helm as names rather than common words, are apparently in the language of the books. Trying to sound out the symbols on the ewer from the list of phoneme-based proper names found in the books would be unlikely to succeed.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 18:12:59 GMT -5
As a point of clarification, the brooch is inscribed with weird symbols, which, when read with Raven's helm, say TORMTOR. The symbols are similar to those on the ewer. TORMTOR is a proper name (or acronym) or magical writing, since Raven's helm doesn't provide a translation for it. The brooch doesn't radiate magic. I'll cast a Read Magic on it just in case. Maybe it's a Wizard Mark or something. No joy.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 18:21:38 GMT -5
45. A. Winthrop sends his spell books out to be lacquered at a cost of 100 GP per spell level. The lacquer makes the books water proof. It costs him 7200 GP to have select books so treated.
B. Grisela and Hugh use swaths of demon skin as material for two backpacks. Each backpack costs 200 GP to manufacture. The backpack receives a +1 on saving throws against anything the demon is normally immune to.
C. Hugh makes a run on holy water at the Cathedral of the Divine Seven. He purchases 50 vials at 30 GP each.
D. Hugh provides his drawings to Antonus and purchases more supplies for 100 GP.
E. Winthrop purchases 80 vials of spell ink and 200 GP worth of special quills and vellum, to improve his chances of successfully writing spells, for a total cost of 8200 GP.
F. Winthrop binds his lacquered spell books in demon hide, at 100 GP per book, to gain the same benefits for his book as the backpacks get.
G. Winthrop, Hugh, and Grisela arrange so that the Company has the spells and valuables they need, and then teleport off to the Hall of the Blue Sun, so that Hugh can enter Longspear and write his scrolls there.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 20:07:15 GMT -5
46. The dark elf books
Andreno Callaghan, who has been going through the dark elven books, provides the following information to the Company, following his readings.
The vivisectionist also provides to Raven a bag that he claim contains a silver capsule roughly an inch long. It is shaped somewhat like an egg. Andreno claims that it radiates magic. Rather than risk anything horrible happening to himself, Andreno has used minor elementals to act as servants, unseen by others, to transport the egg from the dark elf body to the bag and also carry the bag to Raven.
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Post by venger on Sept 7, 2007 20:51:04 GMT -5
D. Hugh provides his drawings to Antonus and purchases more supplies for 100 GP. Perhaps they could identify the unknown giant-type Otto slew on Little Boy Mountain. And establish for us the origins of that most hideous creature combination, the "bug-bear." And those green scalies from the Oytwood. And those monsterous things that worked for Kaluda. More on Rakshashas? Nagas? Demons? Cloud or otherwise? The night-haunt? The vivisectionist also provides to Raven a bag that he claim contains a silver capsule roughly an inch long. It is shaped somewhat like an egg. Andreno claims that it radiates magic. Rather than risk anything horrible happening to himself, Andreno has used minor elementals to act as servants, unseen by others, to transport the egg from the dark elf body to the bag and also carry the bag to Raven. Yeah, I don't want to go through the gate anymore... I think Dell should eat it. Speaking of minor elementals- add Conjure Elemental to the list of 5th level must-have spells.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 21:37:27 GMT -5
47. Melodius Starson
Otto and Raven visit with Melodius Starson a number of time over the two months that the Company is here. Melodius is exceedingly busy, on the verge of overwhelmed, with his responsibilities. He claims to be passing on the Freeholder's words and orders, but everyone is dubious of him. The Steadholders are very disgruntled at what they call "the elven usurpation." Only the fact that General Greymouse fully supports the decisions that Melodius is making causes the Steadholders to continue to take Melodius's words at face value. The government of the Yeomanry is holding together only by force of personality.
Relations between Melodius Starson and Garius Brosingamene seem to have deteriorated. Garius is much more militantly garbed now than before, wearing armor and carrying a heavy polearm when he appears. Garius seems totally uninterested in the Company, and he does not visit the Red Lion Inn. Melodius, finding potential allies in the Company, confides that Garius Brosingamene has been more and more difficult to deal with as the war has dragged on. Raven, seeing an opportunity, asks about the falling out between Cathmandius and Garius. Melodius explains that a friend and ally of Garius's who aided Greymouse's army disappeared during one of the few offensive thrusts that Greymouse authorized. Cathmandius had urged a more forward-leaning approach and was on the forefront of the assault. Cathmandius was separated from the main body of the army but returned following the close of battle. When Garius's ally did not return, he accused Cathmandius of duplicity. The Hextorite rose in rage and denied Garius's claims. Greymouse was forced to intercede between the two of them and send Cathmandius away. Since then, the army has taken a defensive stance.
Melodius also tells them that while the Yeomen are holding strong against the giants coming out of the Jotens and Crystalmists, the forces coming up out of the Hellfurnaces pose a much graver threat. Many of the humanoids are slave troops held and led by the Sea Princes, and they are augmented by more powerful giant-kind, ebon-skinned Fire Giants. General Greymouse has stood up another army, under his protege Froghorn, to face off against the Sea Princes. Melodius doubts that Froghorn, even with his great military skills, will be able to succeed with so many forces already committed near the Jotens and Crystalmists. Already, the Sea Princes have raided into the Yeomanry up to Dregmar.
Melodius tells Otto and Raven that the Yeomanry could use their help in defeating the forces arrayed against them. Otto and Raven explain that they are working a different angle to help relieve the pressure on the Yeomanry, and elsewhere. They regret that they won't be able to join the Yeomen on the front lines fighting against the forces arrayed against them. Melodius tells them that there would be another way the Company could help. Far to the south, at the headwaters of the Hool River, an ancient ruin sits where an elven kingdom once exists. Beneath it, legend has it, is a banner that would raise the fighting morale and prowess of those who follow it, while those that oppose it become weaker and unruly. If the Company could travel down through the Hold of the Sea Princes to search for and retrieve this banner, the Yeomen could fight against their foes even more strongly than they do now.
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Post by Wolfgar on Sept 7, 2007 21:45:47 GMT -5
Otto has picked up some more followers. You may recall: Two and a half days of hard riding brings the Company into sight of a host of men. Disparate camps dot the landscape, and more men stream from the hills. A band of cavalry, militia from the look of them, ride from the camp’s pickets to meet the Company. Otto is heartened to see three fellow Farvalians, men he patrolled the hills with, among them. While Raven and Winthrop speak with the troop leader, Otto speaks with the men, Cranfallow, Ned Thinvoice, and Flewingham. Ned and Cranfallow, simple men, are pleased to see Otto and want to talk about Farvale and what’s happened. Flewingham, always the sharpest of the three, asks Otto about what he’s seen as a Watcher of the Stones. After the four of them exchange signs and countersigns, he quickly informs them of the presence of the seeress of Lydia and what he can remember of the prophecy, already garbled and lost in detail. Otto asks if word has been heard from the Hole expedition, but they know not. Any word would have gone to the Elders. Otto is certain the Hole must play some part in this, and tells the three of them to slip away and watch the Hole. Ned and Cranfallow are aghast at this suggestion, Ned piping up in his thin voice that they would be abandoning their fellows in the town in the moment of their greatest need. Otto glowers at them. “Hard times call for hard measures. Joramy’s flame glows brightest in the stripped earth. Put aside your doubts and remember the sacrifices of our forefathers.” Flewingham agrees, and promises he’ll lead the others off in the next few days. It's a good thing Winthrop is picking up all of the magic items from the Hall. They will need some armor. Do we want to postpone the trip through the gate for a southward swing? We could do the banner and the fire giants.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 21:46:33 GMT -5
48. Perhaps they could identify the unknown giant-type Otto slew on Little Boy Mountain.
And establish for us the origins of that most hideous creature combination, the "bug-bear."
And those green scalies from the Oytwood.
And those monsterous things that worked for Kaluda.
More on Rakshashas?
Nagas?
Demons? Cloud or otherwise?
The night-haunt?
Fog giant, unknown, kech, sea hags.
Samantha finds that the Rakshasas are devils of some strange type, the nagas are one of multiple types. Cloud demons and the night-haunt are still mysteries.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Sept 7, 2007 21:48:28 GMT -5
Winthrop was going to Teleport there and back since he was going to borrow the luck stone and it was needed for other things as well. Whether or not he was reminded of the fact that they were wanted men before they left is another thing. Winthrop tends to be a bit confused about such details. If they get arrested or die in the Teleporting only time will tell. Of course it will be hard to trade the spells he has if he doesn't come back. Maybe Winthrop will remember to Polymorph into someone else before he goes.
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Post by Ginger on Sept 7, 2007 22:32:15 GMT -5
Given that Winthrop has a 99% chance of success when teleporting to places he knows well, he shouldn't need the luck stone. It's more likely to be of help to us when scribing spells.
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Post by Ginger on Sept 7, 2007 22:44:16 GMT -5
It's a good thing Winthrop is picking up all of the magic items from the Hall. They will need some armor. Do we want to postpone the trip through the gate for a southward swing? We could do the banner and the fire giants. What classes and levels are they? I suggest that we head to the gate as planned. We asked Ehlonna directly if we should and she said yes. Let's not upset her and Cedrus. If we head in there and it looks like more than we can handle, we can leave. After that, we can use another Commune to ask more questions to determine exactly what to do with the circlet, whether to pursue Dred, Elsie and Siggurd, whether we should go to the Hold of the Sea Princes, whether we should go to the Hole, or whether we should go to G3. There are a million questions to think of. I don't think Ehlonna will answer if we have ignored her earlier questions. In other words: Go through the gate, give back the circlet, find the banner, kill the Fire Giants.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 7, 2007 22:48:23 GMT -5
49. Dark Elven Items
Andreno Callaghan, who has been exceedingly busy with the arrival of the Company, wishes to keep the decaying dark elven items to further his study of them. He believes that they were crafted in the darkness and have been maintained in such a way to provide them with strength and temper beyond normal items. Grizela's treatment of the mage's armor has retained the strength and temper, while those carried normally have pitted and oxidized. Andreno Callaghan is certain that exposure to light is the cause of the destruction, but he has also detected different degrees of degradation in the various pieces of armor. He posits that dark elves, in addition to strange crafting skills, have strange maintenance processes that cause their equipment to remain strong. Without these processes, whatever they are, the dark elves crafted items will likely slowly degrade.
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Post by Dell on Sept 7, 2007 23:26:59 GMT -5
Dell will:
Trade Bigby's Clenched Fist (scroll) and Leomud's Chest for Anti-Magic Shell, Wall of Stone, Polymorph Other and Haste. He will also see what he can get for the Assassin's Garrotte.
Identify the two remaining bone symbols.
See if the Shadow Dragon "residue" can be used as a base for a poison.
Check for anyone that knows anything about Drow in the criminal underworld.
Stop Clift from starting fake fires and pickpocketing people.
----
Currently, the party has weapons that are designed to kill giants, and items that allow us to resist fire. Maybe we should... fight Drow on another plane???
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Post by Wolfgar on Sept 8, 2007 8:41:31 GMT -5
It's a good thing Winthrop is picking up all of the magic items from the Hall. They will need some armor. What classes and levels are they? Ned Thinvoice appears to be a warrior, and not a particularly good one. Flewingham is a half elven cleric/ranger, a worshipper of Bleredd, the smith. Cranfallow is a warrior as well. It is unclear if Cranfallow is actually a follower of Otto or just a friend of the other two. I agree that we should stick with the plan.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Sept 8, 2007 9:52:09 GMT -5
50. Trade Bigby's Clenched Fist (scroll) and Leomud's Chest for Anti-Magic Shell, Wall of Stone, Polymorph Other and Haste.
Are you planning on writing Bigby's Clenched Fist into a spellbook first?
See if the Shadow Dragon "residue" can be used as a base for a poison.
Only assassins of 9th or higher level may concoct ”potions” of poison - or any other sort of poison, for that matter.
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Post by Dell on Sept 8, 2007 10:47:12 GMT -5
Are you planning on writing Bigby's Clenched Fist into a spellbook first? I thought it would be more valuable in scroll form.
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Post by Ginger on Sept 8, 2007 12:55:17 GMT -5
I assume the party would recognize if Otto's Ned is the same Ned we met in Saltmarsh. Is "not a very good warrior" code for someone who doesn't want to tell you he's a thief?
Who wants to identify the drow egg? It might act as a homing beacon or something once we get through the gates, or it might let us get through areas we otherwise couldn't go through.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Sept 8, 2007 18:15:29 GMT -5
What are the percentages for being able to write an 8th level spell into a spell book?
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Post by venger on Sept 8, 2007 18:32:42 GMT -5
What are the percentages for being able to write an 8th level spell into a spell book? At 18 intelligence you have a base chance of 85% to learn a spell at your level. +/-5% for every level difference in spellcasting ability. At 11th level Winthrop should have a 60% of copying an 8th level spell.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Sept 8, 2007 18:36:30 GMT -5
Hmm, with the Luck Stone there would be a 65% chance of copying the spell. Then whomever we trade it to would have to make a copy from the spell book. That way we'd have the oppurtunity to trade it again in another city.
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Post by Dell on Sept 8, 2007 20:29:35 GMT -5
Hmm, with the Luck Stone there would be a 35% chance of ruining the scroll and not getting anything for it. Corrected your odds for the pessimists in the crowd. How about this: we trade it with the agreement that the guy we sell it to scribes a copy for us? We can throw in extra cash to cover his time... which will probably be expensive.
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Post by Wolfgar on Sept 8, 2007 20:56:07 GMT -5
Neither Winthrop nor Dell have volunteered to identify the figurines - Otto will do those. They seem like kids' toys compared to the egg of Lolth.
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Post by venger on Sept 8, 2007 20:58:05 GMT -5
I think that's what he meant by: Dell will: Identify the two remaining bone symbols.
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Post by Wolfgar on Sept 8, 2007 22:04:36 GMT -5
Missed that.
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Post by Dell on Sept 8, 2007 22:36:49 GMT -5
Indeed, they are identified. The egg I'm leaving for Winthrop to identify.
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