|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2012 7:45:44 GMT -5
Nice to fight some proper evil again. No more fairies! Aside from camels, we did okay. It would have been easier of course if the protection from evil 10' radius had worked the first time. But then I had terrible luck with percentile rolls all day.
Quick note of things I forgot:
-Dan has a ring of fire resistance so he doesn't need the third Endure Heat, which meant he had cure light wounds he could have used after the ghouls,
-Paavo (and everyone near him) gets +2 on his AC against demons from his PfE after he attacks a demon,
-in the quick desert travel, Dan did not get to use the prayer bead of curing to (a) recharge the ring and (b) heal party members.
-Just a reminder that we only have the secure vault until day 120 or so. We are on day 70 or so. We aren't planning to be in the desert for the next 50 days but then we didn't plan to be in Faerie Land for that long.
|
|
|
|
Post by venger on Aug 20, 2012 8:38:41 GMT -5
-Dan has a ring of fire resistance so he doesn't need the third Endure Heat, which meant he had cure light wounds he could have used after the ghouls, Yeah, I didn't think of that either. I also forgot Paavo's magic resistance toward the end, after you left (but fortunately he made his save). That was after Chris helpfully reminded me that demons have innate at-will abilities. : ) --Paavo (and everyone near him) gets +2 on his AC against demons from his PfE after he attacks a demon, I know Friedrich took advantage of it -- I'm not sure anybody else within 10' of Paavo was attacking from the 10' radius. Trommer was whipping demons left and right across the board. -in the quick desert travel, Dan did not get to use the prayer bead of curing to (a) recharge the ring and (b) heal party members. Recharging the ring can be retroactive. There was time to heal everybody to full (1 day) at the Great Oasis, so nobody should have been injured before the fight with the demons. Just a reminder that we only have the secure vault until day 120 or so. We are on day 70 or so. That's accurate. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 9:38:56 GMT -5
Colby also has a defender sword that he forgot to take advantage of.
Generally a great fight, though. We had 4 1st level (or lower!) characters who all survived. I think that once we get used to having the extra people around, we'll get better with picking their actions faster and not forgetting about them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 11:21:29 GMT -5
That looks great to me. Azhbar is a heavy crossbow specialist and Basmadoos is a scimitar specialist.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2012 12:26:28 GMT -5
Gabul was mightily impressed by Umad's damage output (no offense, Friedrich) and thought his big ol' bandolier full of sharps looked awesome. So Gabul is going to be a dart specialist fighter with a saber/scimitar proficiency and another proficiency TBD. Please equip him with the flaming saber (which he already has) and the +3 studded (which is currently in the q-box), as previously suggested by Paavo: Once we are certain he is sticking with us I would suggest letting him use (but not own) the flaming saber and the +3 studded leather. I don't think we have a shield in the q-box. Does anyone have an extra shield Gabul can borrow? Gabul and/or Bolo will need to buy some darts (and an awesome bandolier!) at the next opportunity. How will Gabul's training for proficiencies and specialization work? |
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 12:56:48 GMT -5
Gabul was mightily impressed by Umad's damage output (no offense, Friedrich) and thought his big ol' bandolier full of sharps looked awesome. So Gabul is going to be a dart specialist fighter with a saber/scimitar proficiency and another proficiency TBD. Please equip him with the flaming saber (which he already has) and the +3 studded (which is currently in the q-box), as previously suggested by Paavo: Once we are certain he is sticking with us I would suggest letting him use (but not own) the flaming saber and the +3 studded leather. I don't think we have a shield in the q-box. Does anyone have an extra shield Gabul can borrow? Gabul and/or Bolo will need to buy some darts (and an awesome bandolier!) at the next opportunity. How will Gabul's training for proficiencies and specialization work? No I don’t blame you a bit. Though you may want to hold off until you see another fight in the arena… If Eddie allows OA classes (which he indicated he would by saying a samurai was a possible opponent) into the Arena, they will be the next thing players want their characters to be. The OA classes , from a min-max perspective are superior to their UA counterparts with no compensatory penalties, making AD&D, non-OA characters obsolete(from a power gaming perspective). I didn’t even bother asking Eddie to play anything from that book. Though had , I known OA characters were allowed in this campaign, I most defiantly would have Depending on his Gabul’s stats he could become extremely powerful, forcing the DM to further adjust monsters and scaling the game farther up the power curve. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 13:26:31 GMT -5
I'm pretty positive we won't be allowed to use OA classes ourselves, we'll just have to fight them.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2012 13:37:18 GMT -5
Paavo has an extra shield that he carries in case his first shield takes a critical blow. Gabul can use it until such time as Paavo needs it or we can find/purchase another shield.
I think Gabul will be able to pick up the saber/scimitar proficiency for free since there are plenty of people to teach him. He will need to wait for training in darts until we are back in Barb-el-Shay. Certainly the specialization aspect.
We may ask Gabul to wear the +1 ultralight plate mail since it does not require additional Endure Heats. Mamnoon could wear the studded leather since he is impervious to the heat of the desert. Mamnoon would also be a better user of the flaming sabre since he is a specialized fighter but I won't press the point given sensitivity of magic items. Has Gabul ever considered the bardiche or broadsword?
|
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 13:42:57 GMT -5
What’s the mechanichal difference between darts and daggers? Extra range, I know but do they have an increased rate of fire too?
|
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 13:51:00 GMT -5
Is a saber grouped as a scimitar for proficiency purposes?
|
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2012 14:06:44 GMT -5
Darts have a rate of fire of 3/round. Daggers are only 2/round.
The description of Sword, Falchion (UA p 78) seems to indicate that scimitars encompass sabre, yatagan and tulwar. Wikipedia seems to confirm the commonality of these types of swords.
|
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 14:15:10 GMT -5
Darts have a rate of fire of 3/round. Daggers are only 2/round. quote] What about darts rate of fire for specialized fighters? I don’t have my PDFs on my work pc. |
|
|
|
Post by venger on Aug 20, 2012 14:55:58 GMT -5
I'm not saying I won't allow dart specialist fighters but I'll definitely make sure to do everything in my considerable power as DM to kill that character every chance I get. I'm also of the opinion that dagger specialists should use throwing knives (1d3/1d2) for their increased missile fire attacks, as opposed to heavy daggers (1d4/1d3)... hence Umad. How will Gabul's training for proficiencies and specialization work? Gabul may only choose weapons that someone else in the party is already proficient in, representing his "on the job training" as a fighter. I'm pretty positive we won't be allowed to use OA classes ourselves, we'll just have to fight them. OA, Dragon Magazine, OD&D, 2E, GW, etc. classes may sometimes appear in the campaign as NPCs (good & bad) and very rarely as henchmen/hirelings. Is a saber grouped as a scimitar for proficiency purposes? Yes, PHB. pg 37. Scimitar, Cutlass, Sabre, Sickle-sword, Tulwar, etc. A cutlass actually counts as a shortsword and a scimitar, like a bastard sword is a two-handed sword and a longsword. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 15:13:25 GMT -5
How many camels did we lose? It seems to me that losing 2 pack camels shouldn't be a big issue, given our magical storage. Since we travel for less than 8 hours at a time, Bolo could put a big set of saddle-bags into the vanishing room. Everything else can go in the qbox.
Obviously we want to maximize storage capacity for when we go to the tower and need to haul stuff back, but until we can buy more camels, it should be fine.
Also, did the demon bodies not disappear after death? Someone should thoroughly search them while we sort ourselves out after combat.
|
|
|
|
Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2012 16:22:39 GMT -5
Since we travel for less than 8 hours at a time, Bolo could put a big set of saddle-bags into the vanishing room. I think it's risky to use the vanishing room this way. How it seems to work is that entering the room starts an 8 hour timer. If you enter the room again during that 8 hour period, the timer does not reset. I think this is true even if you completely empty the room. When the 8 hour timer runs out, everything in the room gets flushed. Then the next time you enter the room, you get a new 8 hour timer. But if you can't retrieve your things at exactly the time you planned, of if you mess up your calculations about the sequencing of the timer, or if the mechanism isn't quite the way you think it is, then your stuff may end up flushed. So while I happily use it on a relatively occasional basis for things that have to get from A to B once, or to get Bolo himself out of a pinch, I am hesitant to use it on a regular schedule. Also, did the demon bodies not disappear after death? Someone should thoroughly search them while we sort ourselves out after combat. OK, Bolo will thoroughly search them, just as soon as he's back to max hitpoints, unless someone else who isn't covered in buckets of blood does it first. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 16:37:08 GMT -5
I think it's risky to use the vanishing room this way. How it seems to work is that entering the room starts an 8 hour timer. If you enter the room again during that 8 hour period, the timer does not reset. I think this is true even if you completely empty the room. When the 8 hour timer runs out, everything in the room gets flushed. Then the next time you enter the room, you get a new 8 hour timer. But if you can't retrieve your things at exactly the time you planned, of if you mess up your calculations about the sequencing of the timer, or if the mechanism isn't quite the way you think it is, then your stuff may end up flushed. So while I happily use it on a relatively occasional basis for things that have to get from A to B once, or to get Bolo himself out of a pinch, I am hesitant to use it on a regular schedule. I'd assumed the 8 hour timer would reset once the room was empty. If not, then I agree it's not useful in this regard. |
|
|
|
Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2012 16:38:52 GMT -5
What about darts rate of fire for specialized fighters? UA p. 18 says 4 per round, rising to 5 per round at 7th level, but ... I'm not saying I won't allow dart specialist fighters but I'll definitely make sure to do everything in my considerable power as DM to kill that character every chance I get. OK, probably not a dart specialist then. Bummer. Back to the drawing board ... I'm also of the opinion that dagger specialists should use throwing knives (1d3/1d2) for their increased missile fire attacks, as opposed to heavy daggers (1d4/1d3)... hence Umad. Query: Does "I am of the opinion that dagger specialists should" mean "As DM, I am ruling that dagger specialists must"? Gabul may only choose weapons that someone else in the party is already proficient in, representing his "on the job training" as a fighter. Another query: Do you mean that if he chooses a proficiency/specialization that someone in the party has, he can get it free, as OJT, but otherwise, he'll have to find someone to train him (presumably at a cost) at some future date? |
|
|
|
Post by Bolo on Aug 20, 2012 16:42:19 GMT -5
I'd assumed the 8 hour timer would reset once the room was empty. If not, then I agree it's not useful in this regard. Bolo once did a whole lot of experiments with little numbered slips of paper, placed into the room at various times in various sequences. I haven't gone back to the thread where he did that, and I'm not 100% sure I completely understood the results even at the time. But my recollection is that the timer does not reset. |
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2012 21:18:33 GMT -5
Another query: Do you mean that if he chooses a proficiency/specialization that someone in the party has, he can get it free, as OJT, but otherwise, he'll have to find someone to train him (presumably at a cost) at some future date? As I understand it: - Someone proficient with a weapon is needed to teach someone else to be proficient with that weapon.
- Someone specialized with a weapon is needed to teach someone else to become specialized in that weapon, assuming the trainee has never selected a specialization.
- A weapons trainer (12+ level?) can teach you anything, including switching specializations.
- Weapons training is free if done by a party member, otherwise it will cost to hire someone.
So Gabul could have learned any weapon that a party member knows how to use. We will just assume he has been training for the last 12+ days. Anything else he will have to wait until we get back to the city. He can take proficiencies now and always choose a specialization later. If this helps, the cool weapons which may be available and that we currently have are: -bardiche, moderately enchanted (+3?) -fauchard fork, enchanted and sonic blast (in BeS) -+1 broadsword -flaming sabre -Aguvmar, +3 two-handed sword -+2 dragon slayer longsword -sword brooch (+?, any sword?) -flanged mace, moderately enchanted Note that a dagger or dart specialist is unlikely to ever have a lot of magic weapons he can throw. So his best attacks won't work against creatures that require magic weapons to hit. Nordel was lucky to get magic arrows. |
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 20, 2012 21:44:22 GMT -5
OOC: So once Dan is trained for 4th level spells, going back to the Ovens of Ar-Gar might be a nice way to rack up some x.p. We could leave the low level henchman behind and go demon hunting. Armed with protection from evil, a holy avenger and a sword of disruption, we'll mow things down. Maybe we can join up with the priest that likes to stalk these lands.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 22:12:56 GMT -5
Note that a dagger or dart specialist is unlikely to ever have a lot of magic weapons he can throw. So his best attacks won't work against creatures that require magic weapons to hit. Nordel was lucky to get magic arrows. I'll amend this to note that if you throw a magic dagger or a similar weapon that gets dual use as a melee weapon, the magic is retained. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 22:19:35 GMT -5
OOC: So once Dan is trained for 4th level spells, going back to the Ovens of Ar-Gar might be a nice way to rack up some x.p. We could leave the low level henchman behind and go demon hunting. Armed with protection from evil, a holy avenger and a sword of disruption, we'll mow things down. Maybe we can join up with the priest that likes to stalk these lands. I agree, but if we do this again the DM could play it a lot differently. For example, there were several demons who wasted a round of attacks because they were only near characters with personal protection (Colby, Khaddil and Haddiq). The demons should have just killed the camels out from under us. Also, if they were all using their at-will powers, things would have gotten much hairier. Question on the sword of bravery: Cloak Of Fear radiates a 3" aura of fear. Cloak of bravery doesn't mention a radius, but it seems like you should get one, especially since this is an item and not a single-use spell. |
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 22:24:38 GMT -5
Bolo: Dagger specialists are certainly a viable option. They also have the added upside as being usable as a melee weapon. It's been play tested so if you can sell it to Venger, I'd be worth considering. Plus, I would imagine there will be lots or magic daggers available that no other fighters in the party will be interested in, making it easy for him to amass a nice collection of them suitable for different encounters with enough to have for, maybe a round or two, to pin-cushion an enemy resistant to mundane items. The downside is that every merchant in Greyhawk probably just equipped their body guards with rings of protection from normal missiles! @paavo: Yes, demon hunting could certainly be a viable option. Do you remember that one combat we had where the party was huddled together, hedged by Paavo's PfE and the demons starting making a wall of fire, IIRC....which led to a stalemate....and....
|
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 22:28:34 GMT -5
Note that a dagger or dart specialist is unlikely to ever have a lot of magic weapons he can throw. So his best attacks won't work against creatures that require magic weapons to hit. Nordel was lucky to get magic arrows. I'll second that. In almost 3 years I've been with this group I've seen 20 of them. |
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 20, 2012 22:32:20 GMT -5
@paavo: Yes, demon hunting could certainly be a viable option. Do you remember that one combat we had where the party was huddled together, hedged by Paavo's PfE and the demons starting making a wall of fire, IIRC....which led to a stalemate....and.... By far the most intense demon fight I can remember was waaaaay back in the original campaign at Little Boy Mountain (I think?) when the party had 3 clerics with PfE 10' radius and we were surrounded by 30+ demons from types I, III, IV and V. Each group would gang up on and kill one a round, and they'd gate in one or two more a round. It was just ridiculous. |
|
|
|
Post by Friedrich on Aug 20, 2012 22:40:32 GMT -5
@paavo: Yes, demon hunting could certainly be a viable option. Do you remember that one combat we had where the party was huddled together, hedged by Paavo's PfE and the demons starting making a wall of fire, IIRC....which led to a stalemate....and.... By far the most intense demon fight I can remember was waaaaay back in the original campaign at Little Boy Mountain (I think?) when the party had 3 clerics with PfE 10' radius and we were surrounded by 30+ demons from types I, III, IV and V. Each group would gang up on and kill one a round, and they'd gate in one or two more a round. It was just ridiculous. I don't want to derail this thread but what about that fiasco that led to the near TPK for the Company of the Blue Sun. I know that was before my time here but I've seen the pictures of the battle scene layout and they look pretty epic. Bringing a small army into the Demonweb to kill Lolth was pretty cool too. But I agree epic and intense aren't necessary the same. One of the most intense sessions of this campaign, IMO, was when we were being hunted by the 'huntsmen' and kept hearing the horns going off from differing directions. IIRC, I think we fled into one of those weird mushroom formations and wound up on the Fairy Road...which led to the whole Friedrich losing his shadow fiasco. Good times! |
|
|
|
Post by venger on Aug 20, 2012 22:55:13 GMT -5
How many camels did we lose? The party had a dozen camels, Khaddil has a camel and Haddiq, Azhbad and Basmadoos each had camels. Total 16 camels. 1 camel was slain by ghouls. 2 camels were slain by demons. An unknown # of other camels were affected by demon-fear - but that wore off when the demon was slain so they aren't far away. Also, did the demon bodies not disappear after death? Someone should thoroughly search them while we sort ourselves out after combat. The demons did not disappear except for the one Trommer disrupted. The parched, broken ground greedily drinks in the vile ichor leaking from their bodies. They carry nothing, though each of them is branded with a strange hexagram. Query: Does "I am of the opinion that dagger specialists should" mean "As DM, I am ruling that dagger specialists must"? No. But the bandoliers and carrying accessories will have a much smaller quantity than those for knives. And probably some other inconveniences. Another query: Do you mean that if he chooses a proficiency/specialization that someone in the party has, he can get it free, as OJT, but otherwise, he'll have to find someone to train him (presumably at a cost) at some future date? Yes. 1st level fighters can start with specialization, so he can have that as well if he spends the proficiencies. We'll assume someone in the party was helpful and trained him. Question on the sword of bravery: Cloak Of Fear radiates a 3" aura of fear. Cloak of bravery doesn't mention a radius, but it seems like you should get one, especially since this is an item and not a single-use spell. When drawn it sheds an amber light in a 15' radius. I agree, but if we do this again the DM could play it a lot differently... Also, if they were all using their at-will powers, things would have gotten much hairier. Consider the possibility that whatever sinister daemonic intellect controls these beasts (me) was merely testing the party's strength... and it was already 5:30pm and I should have stopped the session at the edge of the Ovens, but I wanted to let you guys play with your new toys and the random encounters didn't give me any scorpionmen and we didn't make it to the Tower of the Forbidden Gods or the necropolis Khosura. :( @paavo: Yes, demon hunting could certainly be a viable option. Do you remember that one combat we had where the party was huddled together, hedged by Paavo's PfE and the demons starting making a wall of fire, IIRC....which led to a stalemate....and.... Those were fairly nasty devils in the Windwalker Tunnels beneath Ulshamaran. By far the most intense demon fight You aren't out of the Ovens of Ar-Gar yet. Demons teleport without error at will and one of them escaped the party. You don't think he'll be back with friends after he Polymorph Self's back to full HP? back in the original campaign at Little Boy Mountain (I think?) when the party had 3 clerics with PfE 10' radius and we were surrounded by 30+ demons from types I, III, IV and V. That was when I was first introduced to the term "assed out." |
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgar on Aug 21, 2012 9:25:03 GMT -5
If we encounter demons again, remember that we also have protective salts that can be used to form a barrier. I thought we had more but all I see is 5 on Dan's character sheet. These should be split among the party.
Also Dan could use his prayer bead of lesser summons to summon an angel (Dariel).
In a pinch, Mamnoon can transport up to 6 people to any of the elemental planes. I am thinking Air.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ginger on Aug 21, 2012 9:54:41 GMT -5
In a pinch, Mamnoon can transport up to 6 people to any of the elemental planes. I am thinking Air. If only we still had an item which would let us contact the elemental plane of Air!! |
|
|
|
Post by Bolo on Aug 21, 2012 19:08:03 GMT -5
To help my decision about Gabul's weapon proficiencies/specialization, can I get a list of the on-the-job training that's available to him from the party? What's missing from the following?
[edited to add items in bold]
axe specialist (Friedrich)
bastard sword (Paavo)
broadsword (Colby?)
club (Haddiq)
dagger (Friedrich effectively single specialized but not for throwing)
flail (Dan)
heavy crossbow specialist (Azhbar)
longbow specialist (Nordel)
longsword specialist (Trommer)
mace (Dan)
oversize bastard scimitar double specialized (Mamnoon)
scimitar specialist (Paavo)
shortbow (Bolo)
shortsword (Bolo)
spear (Trommer?)
|
|
