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Post by Dell on Jun 21, 2006 8:19:38 GMT -5
The house rules give a full list of what is allowable as an animal friend. Alas, flying mounts are not on the list. Cedrus needs a Fire Lizard.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 21, 2006 10:43:01 GMT -5
We're going up into a glacier, we need a polar bear. 8+8, that's pretty hard to beat. Also, we should probably do a divination to see if there is a powerful undead following us. It might be good to know if he's close.
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Post by Dell on Jun 21, 2006 14:21:13 GMT -5
What are the stats for a tauntaun? We should all ride tauntauns.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 21, 2006 14:36:59 GMT -5
I suggested getting some gryphon eggs to raise for mounts. Of course my intention of using a fireball might have ruined that plan.
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Post by Dell on Jun 21, 2006 14:51:05 GMT -5
I'm torn - I love stealing, but I hate pets.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 26, 2006 14:29:22 GMT -5
Did we make it to the frost giants?
Are we taking next week off for 4th of July? I will be out of town but if you are playing Otto will be happy to keep killing giants.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 26, 2006 16:03:07 GMT -5
We went into the orc cave where Otto and Raven were assasinated by a half-orc with a crossbow of speed. Otto went from full hit points to zero in one round and was poinsed to boot. Diego was trapped by a rope of entanglement. Dell dodged the cone of cold from the Ogre Magi. I toasted the Orc Shaman the Assasin and their magic items. I also went after the Ogre Magi and failed my save against the suggestion that I go back inside and kill everyone. Fortunately I had cast minor globe before I rashly chased the orge without telling anyone so I instead lightning bolted it twice before it got out of range and flew away.
We are playing next week and should make some progress towards the giants.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 26, 2006 18:59:03 GMT -5
No hold monster? I felt certain you would use that the first chance you got.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 26, 2006 19:12:08 GMT -5
I was going to use it on the orge magi but he was out of range. I should have used it on the Shaman and assassin. That way I wouldn't have toasted their magic items. No sense wasting it on orcs.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 26, 2006 19:58:38 GMT -5
To add a bit more detail the first few minutes of the plan went great. Raven was able to run up invisibly and silently and shoot three arrows into each of the four gaurds. The next set of orc guards went in a similar fashion but we were heard. Otto and Al gleefully ran at the next set of tem orcs and three sergeants only to have Raven and Diego dispatch all but one of them before they could be reach. The assault bogged down a bit after that. Some more orcs quickly threw up a barracade and tossed some buring oil to block our way. At this time dark black smoke started to fill the corridors behind us from where we came. Otto stepped forward to put out the fire with Raven's sword but had a bit of a problem getting a handle on how to make it work taking three attempts to work out the kinks. After that Otto, Al, Raven and Diego charged forward through the barricade to go after the other orcs. It was after that action that Otto was struck down by the arrow and then Raven to the same fate. At the same time a small mob of orcs struck from the rear with some human crossbowmen. Winthrop had summoned some Ghouls to help but these were quickly cut down and a web finally held most of them. Cedrus and Hugh called for a number of Prayers, Blesses and Healing while trying to smite orcs. Oaklock cast a number of magic missiles as well. THe gnome that was placed in Otto's charge was nowhere to be seen (which was smart of him). Around this time Dell had finally recovered from what ever was ailing him and decided to come check out what was happening. Entering the cave he came upon a shaman chanting next to some smoke pots. While Dell escaped its notice Adrianne did not. Adrienne attack from the front while Dell did so from behind. After that brief bit of exercise dell calmly pu the lids back on the smoke pots which immediately started clearing the air. Looking down the corridor Dell sensed a bunch of humans, they were making a lot of noise, and decided that a lightning bolt was an appropraiate attention getter. At the same time as that action the web caught on fire releasing the held orcs and humans. Dell then cast fear and I think Adrienne cast hold person. Shortly after Dell heard Ogre noises behind him so took cover behind the last standing held human at which time the Ogre appeared and tried to cool Dell down with the cone of cold. Dell deftly stepped aside and the Ogre fled.
While I was trying to get the ogre magi to come back and fight by mooning him the two r.emaining humans tried to flee with the 24 horses. Since they had gotten past me my last chance was to don a half move and then cast wall of fire starting 60 feet away and extend it 160 feet to spook the horse ( cook the one). It worked since the two men fell off their horses and were trampled to death. I wasn't able to catch any of the horses for some reason.
The rest of the party eventaully came out and we travelled back up the canyou to find where the humans had set up camp. It turns out that they were trapping hippogryphs and tming them. Being the righteous group that we are we freed them. Even the three that were already pretty tame and could have been used as mounts.
I 'm sure there are parts I missed or got out of order. We did find some documents that mentioned elves buying stuff or some such thing.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 27, 2006 7:00:16 GMT -5
Pretty much the correct order.
There was some treasure found, though the orcs had much less than the camp containing the humans. The humans had giantish coins and the orcs mainly human sized, mixed coinage.
Three sets of documents were found. Two were found in the orc caves, one in the tent camp near the hippogryphs. Of the orc cave ones, one was in orcish and seemed to detail some transactions between the orcs and possibly elves on the glacier. The language is quite derogatory, but sometimes uses the phrase "snow fairies" in it. It seems like the shipments happened every few months. The other set of documents was found in the ogre magus's cave and is in presumably ogre/ogre magus/giant language.
The douments from the tent camp are in common and take the form of a diary, either one of the lieutenants or by the leader of the camp himself, depending on how Bob Dole-esque the author was. They relate sales of hippogryphs to the Bergheim mercenaries three times a year in addition to selling ogre-made, giant-sized armor to the elves on the glacier. It details the meeting point as well as describes the bitter cold of the glacier.
From these, you put together a short chain of events. Orcs get ogre's armor. Orcs pass to humans ogre armor. Humans transfer ogre armor to elves on glacier. It looks like the orcs were getting shorted on the deal as well.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 27, 2006 8:56:36 GMT -5
Questions: Did the activity on the glacier we saw from the dragon cave look like a delivery of armor? How long has it been since then? Are there any human captives? Are the orcs/humans aware of the death of the ogres who provided the armor? Since the humans go to the glacier do they have any special equipment or clothing for dealing with cold and ice? Do we know the names of any of the humans that we could use as a way of bluffing our way on the glacier? Any details about the layout of the elves' place on the glacier, how many elves there are, who their leader is or about the giants they give the armor to?
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 27, 2006 10:39:48 GMT -5
No prisoners. Lots of heads to talk to. We have done a complete search of the tents to see if they have cold weather clothes. I would say that they wre unaware of the ogres demise. Deliveries were every two to three months.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 27, 2006 11:03:41 GMT -5
Can we get a list of the loot? There was a set of magical splint mail worn by the assassin and a magical shield used by the fighter. He failed his save, so his potion and shield were cooked. The shield is still usable once it mends itself. The assassin's crossbow of speed was melted as well.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 27, 2006 22:18:43 GMT -5
It was after that action that Otto was struck down by the arrow and then Raven to the same fate. So what is the rule on assassination? I thought it had to be a surprise attack. From the description it sounds like this happened in the middle of combat at which point we don't allow surprise, right? I thought surprise can only happen at the beginning of an encounter. Do we allow an assassination attempt on any back attack? Also I noticed in the DMG on page 70 under the section on Magically Sleeping or Held Opponents it says I know we do the maximum damage but we don't do the double attacks, should we? Also what about using the assassination table on such opponents? It seems to imply that it can be used by any character class in this case. And even if the assassination attempt fails you still get the weapon damage. It might make it quicker to dispatch monsters held by Winthrop.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 27, 2006 23:24:09 GMT -5
Questions: 1. Did the activity on the glacier we saw from the dragon cave look like a delivery of armor? 2. How long has it been since then? 3. Are there any human captives? 4. Are the orcs/humans aware of the death of the ogres who provided the armor? 5. Since the humans go to the glacier do they have any special equipment or clothing for dealing with cold and ice? 6. Do we know the names of any of the humans that we could use as a way of bluffing our way on the glacier? 7. Any details about the layout of the elves' place on the glacier, how many elves there are, who their leader is or about the giants they give the armor to? 1. The distance was quite far, and you can't be sure of what was going on. Even with the spyglass, the most you could resolve was that a sled was there and some might be bigger than others. It could have been a delivery of armor, but then again it could have not been. 2. It has been about a month and a half. 3. They're all dead, Jim! Er... Otto! 4. See answer to 3. 5. Cold weather gear is strewn around the camp. Enough for a bunch of people, at least 15 or so, once it is de-loused. No ice-skating or mountaineering gear is found, just nasty, lice-filled furs. 6. Unfortunately, the author of the diary only refers to "Boss" and "Number 2". The orc papers have curse-words and snow faeries as entries. 7. None at hand. Might have to ask the dead.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 27, 2006 23:33:59 GMT -5
Can we get a list of the loot? Found in crude orc chest and other bodies4000 Sterich CP 600 Sterich SP 203 Sterich EP 174 Sterich GP 28 Sterich PP Found in orc chief's room23 Agates (5 banded, 8 cat's eye, 4 red, 6 golden) (50 GP each) Found in shaman's roomSilver eye tiara (100 GP) 2 Silver and gold spear armbands (300 GP each) Gold orc head necklace (500 GP) Amber flask of perfume (100 GP) Silver coffer (650 GP) Found in ogre magus's room Green banded ceramic flask Red banded ceramic flask Black banded ceramic flask Found on dead bodies, mainly humans304 Giantish GP (Head/Axe) 50 uncut Quartz (1 GP each) Found on Assassin's corpseSplintmail2 Onyx (100 GP each) Diamond earring (350 GP) Silver and ruby brooch (1200 GP) Found on Warrior's corpseShield10 Quartz (50 GP each) 1 Amethyst (100 GP) Gold belt buckle (75 GP) Found on ShamanPlatinum engraved knucklebone necklace, studded with jet and onyx, and chased with gold (2700 GP) Magical items in italics
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 27, 2006 23:54:01 GMT -5
So what is the rule on assassination? I thought it had to be a surprise attack. From the description it sounds like this happened in the middle of combat at which point we don't allow surprise, right? I thought surprise can only happen at the beginning of an encounter. Do we allow an assassination attempt on any back attack? Assassination can occur whenever an assassin is not the primary target of combat and the target of the assassin is engaged in activities not directed at the assassin. A successful attack must occur and then the assassination attempt must succeed. If the assassination is successful, the target goes to 0 HP, but does not lose further HP. If the assassination fails, the target takes appropriate weapon damage from being hit. Example: A ranger charges into a room and attacks the orcs attempting to block entry to the room. He cuts two of the six orcs down and begins fighting the other orcs there. The half orc assassin crouching in the doorway on the other side of the room aims at the ranger and shoots him in the head, successfully assassinating him. Since the quarrel is poisoned, the ranger must make a poison saving throw as well. When failed, the ranger begins taking damage from the poison and eventually dies. Example: An archer, knowing an assassin lurks on the far side of the room, ignores the apparent danger and focuses on killing the orc archers harrying the Company. Since the archer is not attempting to engage the assassin, the archer is open for assassination, assuming no one else engages the assassin. The assassin aims at the archer and shoots him in the head, successfully assassinating him. Since the quarrel is poisoned, the archer must make a poison saving throw as well. When made, the archer takes no more damage and instead sits at 0 HP. Example: A dwarf, identifying that the half orc crossbowman is assassinating the rest of the Company, charges the half orc. The dwarf feebly swings his axe at the half orc assassin, missing both times. Since the half orc is now a combat target, the assassin can no longer assassinate, even though he is not hit. Example: A magic user, identifying that the half orc crossbowman is assassinating the rest of the Company, casts fireball on the group of orcs. The half orc assassin fails his saving throw and takes much damage. The assassin can not attempt to assassinate on the action subsequent to taking damage. Also I noticed in the DMG on page 70 under the section on Magically Sleeping or Held Opponents it says I know we do the maximum damage but we don't do the double attacks, should we? Also what about using the assassination table on such opponents? It seems to imply that it can be used by any character class in this case. And even if the assassination attempt fails you still get the weapon damage. It might make it quicker to dispatch monsters held by Winthrop. I fully agree that you would be more able to dispatch monsters using the rules as described in the DMG. We have house ruled paralysis and damage taken when held though. When beginning the campaign, I changed those rules for the benefit of the party. Hold person and paralysis, for example with ghouls, become unsurvivable. I decided such percentile chances for instant death were punitive at best. Even the maximum double damage seems punitive (a ghoul would do 24 points of damage a round to a paralyzed person, while a ghast would do 32 points of damage a round). Since what is good for the party is even better for the monsters, we 've played with our current house rule rather than the by-the-book method. I'm open to switching back to the by-the-book method if everyone wants to do so.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 28, 2006 8:52:30 GMT -5
Assassination can occur whenever an assassin is not the primary target of combat and the target of the assassin is engaged in activities not directed at the assassin. I would think that the assassin has to surprise or in some way take the individual unaware to assassinate. Backstab could happen whenever the opponent is turned away but actual assassination requires more. Once Otto had been assassinated then Raven even though he didn't turn to attack the assassin is aware of him and can take minimal actions to prevent a successful assassination and can furthermore alert others to his presence by shouting while continuing to shoot the orcs. Even if the assassin wins initiative the round immediately following his first assassination attempt he should not get to continue assassinating because no one has had a chance to take an action against him. Assassination is meant to be a quick death by surprise, it is not a melee/combat routine. If I may draw a parallel in other fiction - in The Professional when Jean Reno is teaching Natalie Portman to shoot someone jogging in Central Park from the top of the building - she gets one chance to shoot him. It requires minutes to prepare for the shot and only one shot can be taken before the individual is aware of the attempt. So even with a crossbow of speed only the first shot should be considered an assassination attempt. Since what is good for the party is even better for the monsters, we've played with our current house rule rather than the by-the-book method. I'm open to switching back to the by-the-book method if everyone wants to do so. I am fine with our current method for magically held individuals.
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Post by Ginger on Jun 28, 2006 9:29:00 GMT -5
The assassin wasn't even on the board, because no one knew he was there. Since I was the second one assassinated, I can say that it actually hadn't occured to me that Otto was assassinated. I just saw Dana roll a bunch of dice and say that Otto fell down at 0 hp.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 28, 2006 10:01:51 GMT -5
The assassin wasn't even on the board, because no one knew he was there. Since I was the second one assassinated, I can say that it actually hadn't occured to me that Otto was assassinated. I just saw Dana roll a bunch of dice and say that Otto fell down at 0 hp. But that is the definition of assassination. And you certainly would have seen the crossbow bolt sticking out of him. So even if you don't know where the assassin is or that there is an assassin you are no longer unaware. It is simplistic to say the character stays fixed in one position during a round when in fact he is going through an entire attack sequence which includes trying not to be hit. Assassination requires a precise hit on someone who is in no way prepared or taking a defensive posture. If the person is moving about in melee then it is hard to pick out a specific part of the body to hit.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 28, 2006 12:16:02 GMT -5
As I remember it Raven wasn't even looking in Raven's direction when he was hit. The discription was given that Otto was hit by a crossbow bolt. I had assumed that he went down from being poisoned (which he was). It wasn't until Raven was shot from behind that David realized it was an assassination attempt. I wouldn't have made the connection unless he said it. I think the discription of being hit in the head is a artistic descriptive element of the assassination being successful. It it wasn't it would have just been described as being shot in the back.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jun 28, 2006 12:25:37 GMT -5
Correction: Please subsitute "Otto" for the second "Raven" in the first sentence of the last message.
We will need to collect the cold weather gear and maybe Dell has a cntrip that can de-louse it. I beleive that Otto arrange the purchase for Mountaineering gear for everyone plus two. So we can supply Pffiffwin with one. Did Pffiffwin bring his own cold weather gear since he should have known from our conversation that we were going to the glacier?
If Dell still has some pearls we probably want to identify the potions. I think we can defer on the plint mail and shield. The coinage can go into Leomund's chest so we will need to calculate it volume for the accoutning of the chest's capacity. We can put the gems and jewelery in as well or that can be carried.
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Post by Dell on Jun 28, 2006 14:20:18 GMT -5
We can put the gems and jewelery in as well or that can be carried. Gems and jewelry should go with Dell. As for the assassin thing, I agree with everything that has been said by everyone.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 28, 2006 15:43:04 GMT -5
If Dell still has some pearls we probably want to identify the potions. I think we can defer on the plint mail and shield. The coinage can go into Leomund's chest so we will need to calculate it volume for the accoutning of the chest's capacity. We can put the gems and jewelery in as well or that can be carried. Someone should take the split mail since it is at least one better than anyone wearing +1 chain mail. If it is better than +1 then Otto would take it over his +1 plate for the added bonus to saving throws. With all of the spell casters it should only take an hour or so to memorize Mend enough times to bring it full.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 28, 2006 19:37:16 GMT -5
Assassination is meant to be a quick death by surprise, it is not a melee/combat routine. If I may draw a parallel in other fiction - in The Professional when Jean Reno is teaching Natalie Portman to shoot someone jogging in Central Park from the top of the building - she gets one chance to shoot him. It requires minutes to prepare for the shot and only one shot can be taken before the individual is aware of the attempt. So even with a crossbow of speed only the first shot should be considered an assassination attempt. I envision assassination more like, to draw a different parallel, Pvt. Jackson in Saving Private Ryan. As a sniper in the bell tower he was able to assassinate soldiers throughout the battle, until he was engaged (in this case by a tank). Rounds in AD&D are a minute long and are a series of parries, thrusts, and movement culminating in accumulated damage. I envision the same aiming on an unaware target, but allow that the target may be jumping about fighting some other guy. I concur that if you know the guy with a crossbow is an assassin and is picking you off one at a time, and, for some reason, you can't get your archer or your spellcaster to attack him, you should be able to prevent yourself from getting assassinated by hunkering down behind your shield. I'm not sure how that works in game mechanics though. I think it requires you to give up DEX and perhaps shield bonuses against those orcs around you, as you fix your position and apply your defense against those deadly arrows coming in.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 28, 2006 19:59:03 GMT -5
That is certainly one view of the assassination ability. I envision it more like, to draw a different parallel, Pvt. Jackson in Saving Private Ryan. As a sniper in the bell tower he was able to assassinate soldiers throughout the battle, until he was engaged (in this case by a tank). Rounds in AD&D are a minute long and are actually series of parries, thrusts, and movement culminating in accumulated damage. I envision the same aiming on an unaware target, but allow that the target may be jumping about fighting some other guy. But I think there should be a modifier for aiming on someone in motion as opposed to someone who is simply walking or is motionless. It is one thing to strike them doing the damage, it is another to hit a moving target exactly where you want killing them instantly. Consider a vorpal blade or sword of sharpness. Only on a high roll do they actually do more than normal damage. They are always sharp and you might hit a lot of times with one of these weapons without actually automatically killing the opponent. I would think that an attempt to assassinate would similarly require a high roll when employed against someone in combat. I guess from now on we will have to enter a room with someone always watching the rear. Or maybe like in those cop shows where one person enters a room does a quick scan, yells clear and then the next person enters past the first person to gain a further position.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 28, 2006 20:07:02 GMT -5
We will need to collect the cold weather gear and maybe Dell has a cntrip that can de-louse it. I beleive that Otto arrange the purchase for Mountaineering gear for everyone plus two. So we can supply Pffiffwin with one. Did Pffiffwin bring his own cold weather gear since he should have known from our conversation that we were going to the glacier? Before we go off and run around a glacier can we get a ruling on Endure Cold? Is this allowed in our campaign? Did we agree it is negated if attacked by magic cold but that you automatically save that round? We will still want the furs but with Cedrus using the ring of sustenance he could dish out five of these, sleep for two hours, memorize for another hour and we would still have nine hours left on the original spells.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 28, 2006 20:24:19 GMT -5
We will need to collect the cold weather gear and maybe Dell has a cntrip that can de-louse it. I beleive that Otto arrange the purchase for Mountaineering gear for everyone plus two. So we can supply Pffiffwin with one. Did Pffiffwin bring his own cold weather gear since he should have known from our conversation that we were going to the glacier? Otto did arrange for mountaineering gear from the dwarves. Pfiffwin came only lightly equipped, being recently released from, well, jail. You'll have to provide for him, assuming you can find him again. Before we go off and run around a glacier can we get a ruling on Endure Cold? Is this allowed in our campaign? Did we agree it is negated if attacked by magic cold but that you automatically save that round? We will still want the furs but with Cedrus using the ring of sustenance he could dish out five of these, sleep for two hours, memorize for another hour and we would still have nine hours left on the original spells. I've read the Dragonsfoot post on Endure Cold/Heat, and I'm willing to go with their interpretation and allow the spell in the game. To summarize, Endure Cold/Heat allows for an automatic save for a magical spell using the attack form being endured. It would not give an automatic save for a spell that lacked a save (Ice Storm/Wall of Ice come to mind) and would still be dispelled. A cold or heat attack will dispel the entirety of the spell. As an aside, I can see how this would be a good prep spell too. Cast Endure Heat on someone and then fireball them in the midst of the enemy, for example. I think if it nullified the damage from the magical attack, this use of the spell would be too imbalancing. Also, this is an insurance type spell against having your magic items go up in a big ball of flame. Interesting spell.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 29, 2006 9:42:53 GMT -5
Winthrop and Dell unpack the mahogany case and display the bell jar containing the amber liquid and the floating amulet. The three of them contemplate the amulet in silence. After some consideration, Rhys agrees to investigate the amulet, provided that Winthrop and Dell compensate him heavily. The price is steep, sacks of Freegold, but the risk will not be Winthrop’s or Dell’s. Dell agrees to bring the funds to the Academy in the morning. So are we ever planning on trying this out? Are we expecting some sort of negative side-effect? Is there a limit to how often it can be used? I would think this would be very useful when attacking a large number of opponents. It might have made the first time we went to the giant steading a little easier especially when fighting the massed forces under the kitchen. And it could have made the recent attack on the orc cave go better. We should try to use it before we get to the glacier if only to see the effectiveness of it. Does anyone else think it is a good idea to try using?
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