The Death of Otto

[Ginger]

I think the problem is the distribution of gold. Since we're so rich and travel so much, it's really difficult for people to get their share of the loot directly since that share weighs 200 lbs. Converting stuff to gems to distribute seems really inefficient since we lose 20% to convert and then lose another 20% liquidating the gems to spend.

I think the best thing to do is to use Winthrop's chest as a bank. We should try to have a chest constructed in Longspear or Loftwick for Dell, as well. Basically, we'll shrink the balance of Company funds to personal funds so people can have more to spend. Otto and Jasper can't use such a system because of class restrictions, so Jasper will just donate his funds whenever he sees a monestary and Otto can take gemstones or other valuable items.

[Perrin]

Since we're on the topic of gold, Perrin would like the opportunity to tithe to the Church of the Divine Seven in Loftwick. I'm sure Dell would be open to providing a generous tithe, yes?

[Ginger]

perrin said:

Since we're on the topic of gold, Perrin would like the opportunity to tithe to the Church of the Divine Seven in Loftwick. I'm sure Dell would be open to providing a generous tithe, yes?

We'll have cash to spread around. Generally speaking, your training costs are considered a tithe, and those will be several thousand gold pieces.

[venger]

Sounds like you guys want to come up with even more complicated systems for not giving people treasure.

The "white" binder is full of weeks and weeks of loot. At what point do we actually look at it and say "when divided up, after weeks XXX - XXX everyone receives ###### gold!"

Hold half of it back in the company fund for "company expenses."

Divvy the rest up.

If you don't think every character deserves an equal share, figure out something where one would receive a share proportional to one's level.

The only people who ever get anything in the party are the ones who steal it. That has to change.

perrin said:

Since we're on the topic of gold, Perrin would like the opportunity to tithe to the Church of the Divine Seven in Loftwick. I'm sure Dell would be open to providing a generous tithe, yes?

This clearly illustrates the problem in the party- after this long Perrin should not have to be asking DELL to provide a generous tithe to his church.

[Ginger]

There are two ways of doing things when you get to town. You can say "I'll ask to get 1000 GP from the company funds to buy ink." That gives Dell an excuse to argue and quibble, which you know is physically impossible for him to pass up. Dell wrote a paper arguing why the sky isn't blue, it's just his nature.

The better way to do it is to say "I'll get 1000 GP from the company funds and buy ink."

Let's just give everyone 2000 GP once we get to Loftwick.

[venger]

arrowguy said:

There are two ways of doing things when you get to town. You can say "I'll ask to get 1000 GP from the company funds to buy ink." That gives Dell an excuse to argue and quibble, which you know is physically impossible for him to pass up. Dell wrote a paper arguing why the sky isn't blue, it's just his nature.

The better way to do it is to say "I'll get 1000 GP from the company funds and buy ink."

Let's just give everyone 2000 GP once we get to Loftwick.

The keepers of the company funds are Dell and Winthrop. I have ready access to neither Winthrop's magical chest nor Dell's magical bag of holding-all-our-gems. So while it's all well and good for me to say "I'm getting some company funds," it's certainly not as easy as you make it sound.

And you have, again, most deftly ignored the issue of treasure distribution, oh fearless leader.

For now I will attempt to draw from the company funds when we reach Loftwick, for traveling spellbooks and magical ink. And I will take 2000GP.

But we need to come to some amicable arrangement as to the dispersal of found treasure. After 30+ sessions I have accumulated 120gp and 1 reusable misc. magic item. (... yay 1 extra 2nd lvl spell) I mean, your brand new henchmen are better off than Antonus. It's disheartening.

[Dell]

apprentice said:

But we need to come to some amicable arrangement as to the dispersal of found treasure.

There's a number of proposed treasure distribution methods in the archives if you want to bring one back up for a vote. I'm fond of the continual draft method, myself.

[Ginger]

500 GP per character per level? Multiclass characters would get 250 GP per level.

We tend to think of distribution schemes which are designed to make the characters happy, when we really want something which makes the players happy. A player tends to focus on the coolness of a magic item that can be used each week as opposed to a much more valuable gift of training.

[venger]

arrowguy said:

500 GP per character per level? Multiclass characters would get 250 GP per level.

Why are we so averse to basing the treasure distribution off of what we've actually found? Some weeks we find nothing, some weeks we get hoards of gold and jewels. We're all adventurers, in this for a stake of what we find... I'm not looking for a weekly paycheck.

Meticulous records are kept- detailing every valuable object/coin we find and when we've found it.

Everyone, including henchmen, should get a share commiserate to their worth (level). I don't know what kind of systems you've used in the past, but here goes.

10th level and beyond get a full share and every level below that receives a fraction thereof:

1st level - 1/10 share, 2nd level - 2/10 share, 3rd level - 3/10 share, etc.

Multiclass characters can take their experience total and combine it to figure out at what level they should be compensated.

The company fund would get a predetermined number of shares (half?) to be used for all things that have been deemed company expenses (training, etc).

arrowguy said:

We tend to think of distribution schemes which are designed to make the characters happy, when we really want something which makes the players happy. A player tends to focus on the coolness of a magic item that can be used each week as opposed to a much more valuable gift of training.

Magic items are a whole different story.

For the most part, giving them out to whoever can use them best seems to work for the group. We usually reach something of a consensus. And if somebody really wants something, and they're vocal about it, they usually get it.

I'm all for working out a new system that benefits Dell less and other people more though.

[Ginger]

After the fight in Orlane we got a huge list like this:

1. GOLD NECKLACE (250 GP)
2. 2 GOLD BRACELETS (100 GP EACH)
3. GOLD ANKLET (90 GP)
...
37. SCROLL OF CURE LIGHT WOUNDS, CURE LIGHT WOUNDS AT 7TH LEVEL (MERRSHAULK, DEMON GOD OF SNAKES) -- in Adler's possession
38. MAGICAL CHAINMAIL

Can we get something like that posted to the message board so we can divvy out loot from Little Boy Mountain onilne?

[Ginger]

So, let's talk new teams!!

Let's assume that everyone gets trained, Otto gets raised, and Cedrus and Al return. That gives us 16 people.

Fighters:
Otto
Al
Raven
Grizella

Clerics:
Cedrus
Hugh
Adrienne
Perrin
Adler

Magic Users:
Winthrop
Dell
Antonus
Samantha

Other:
Jasper
Clift
Pfiffwin

Here's the first proposal. It's simplest because it's based on maximizing player to PC groupings:

Team 1-Winthrop, Hugh, Grizella, Perrin
Team 2-Raven, Antonus, Adler, Jasper
Team 3-Dell, Adrienne, Clift, Al
Team 4-Otto, Cedrus, Pfiffwin, Samantha

Each team will have a magic user of at least 5th level, a cleric of at least 4th level, and a fighter of at least 5th level. They're roughly balanced. Trading Perrin for Adler will even them out considerably.

Here's the next proposal. It's got specialized groups.

Team 1-Otto, Al, Adrienne, Perrin
Team 2-Raven, Antonus, Adler, Hugh
Team 3-Winthrop, Grizella, Cedrus, Samantha
Team 4-Jasper, Clift, Pfiffwin, Dell

Team 1 rushes towards the biggest bad guys to close in melee. Team 2 advances but stays out of melee. Team 3 doesn't advance and casts spells, with Grizella to guard. Team 4 will run around the battlefield, disappear, or do other wacky things.

[Wolfgar]

I like the idea of first proposal better. Having each group basically self sufficient. Team 1 is missing someone with thief abilities but that isn't too concerning. From the healing angle it might be better to have Perrin with Otto, Adler with Winthrop and Cedrus with Raven. Otto has his ring so won't need much in the way of healing while Jasper is a sieve for hit points.

[sam]

I like the specialized groups. I know that no matter what plan we actually come up with, no one will actually adhere to for very long. But I'd rather stay away from melee until I have an amor class of something better than 10.

[Dead Greyhawk]

arrowguy said:

After the fight in Orlane we got a huge list like this:

1. GOLD NECKLACE (250 GP)
2. 2 GOLD BRACELETS (100 GP EACH)
3. GOLD ANKLET (90 GP)
...
37. SCROLL OF CURE LIGHT WOUNDS, CURE LIGHT WOUNDS AT 7TH LEVEL (MERRSHAULK, DEMON GOD OF SNAKES) -- in Adler's possession
38. MAGICAL CHAINMAIL

Can we get something like that posted to the message board so we can divvy out loot from Little Boy Mountain onilne?

Sure. Here goes. Italics for magical items. Names next to items I think someone has already scooped up.

MORNING STAR -- GRIZELA
404 SPIDER/MACE PP
TWO-HANDLED EARTHENWARE JUG -- ANTONUS
GAUDY-LOOKING GOLD-PLATED NECKLACE WITH LARGE IMITATION DIAMONDS (20 GP)
4 JADE BRACELETS (500 GP EACH)
A TIARA OF SILVER WITH A LARGE SAPPHIRE (SILVER WORTH 50 GP, SAPPHIRE 1,000 GP)
15 GREEN EMERALDS (100 GP EACH)
15 BLACK DRUSY (100 GP EACH)
15 BLUE SAPPHIRES (100 GP EACH)
15 RED RUBIES (100 GP EACH)
15 PURPLE TANZANITE (100 GP EACH)
15 ORANGE CITRINES (100 GP EACH)
15 YELLOW TOPAZES (100 GP EACH)
15 GOLDEN AMBER (100 GP EACH)
9 BLACK DECAYED CHAINMAIL
13 BLACK DECAYED BUCKLER
9 BLACK DECAYED SHORTSWORD
9 BLACK DECAYED DAGGER
2 BLACK DECAYED LONGSWORD
2 BLACK DECAYED FOOTMAN’S MACE
8 BLACK DECAYED BOOTS
8 BLACK DECAYED CLOAKS
1333 COPPER STUDS (1 CP EACH)
1000 ELECTRUM SPIKES (1 EP EACH)
333 GOLD MEDALLIONS (1 GP EACH)
ALEXANDRITE (100 GP)
HAMMER
9 ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS (100 GP EACH)
BOTTLE OF CLEAR LIQUID
GOLD LOCKET OF WOMAN-HEADED SPIDER -- CEDRUS
PLATINUM BROOCH WITH WORD “TORMTOR” SCRIBED AROUND A PRISM -- RAVEN
5 GOLD DISHES (50 GP EACH)
BLACK OPAL (1000 GP)
8 STAR SAPPHIRES (1000 GP EACH)
BLACK CLOAK -- GRIZELA
BLACK BOOTS -- GRIZELA
BLACK CHAIN
BLACK BUCKLER
BLACK SHORTSWORD
SMALL VIAL
BRONZE RING
PEARL
22 SERPENTINE (20 GP EACH)
11 GREEN QUARTZ (10 GP EACH)
27 JADEITE (60 GP EACH)
COLLECTION OF BOOKS
2 BLACK BEDROLLS -- ANTONUS
6 TROGLODYTE SPEARS -- JASPER

[Wolfgar]

I'll sort through this and give a suggested breakout of the gold and gems. I think Clift, Adler and Grizzela should get quarter shares, Samantha gets a half share and everyone else full shares. Sound right? That will be roughly 2500 gp per share with nothing going to Company Funds.

BTW, did anyone notice that the drow seem to have invaded Texas?

[Wolfgar]

Here is the split ignoring the copper.

	COUNT	GP Value	SUBTOTAL
Otto
BLACK OPAL	1	1000	1000
TIARA W/SAPPHIRE	1	1,050	1050
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ALEXANDRITE	1	100	100
GOLD DISHES	1	50	50
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Raven
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
YELLOW TOPAZES	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
GOLD DISHES	2	50	100
GREEN QUARTZ	10	10	100
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Winthrop
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
RED RUBIES	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS	1	100	100
GOLD DISHES	2	50	100
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Dell
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
PURPLE TANZANITE	5	100	500
RED RUBIES	5	100	500
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS	2	100	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Cedrus
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
PURPLE TANZANITE	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS	2	100	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Hugh
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
ORANGE CITRINES	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS	2	100	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Adrienne
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
GREEN EMERALDS	5	100	500
ORANGE CITRINES	5	100	500
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
ONYX-STUDDED SILVER GOBLETS	2	100	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Perrin
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
GREEN EMERALDS	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
SERPENTINE	10	20	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Antonus
STAR SAPPHIRES	1	1000	1000
GOLDEN AMBER	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
SERPENTINE	10	20	200
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Jasper
JADE BRACELETS	2	500	1000
BLUE SAPPHIRES	5	100	500
GOLDEN AMBER	5	100	500
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	3	60	180
SERPENTINE	1	20	20
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Pfiffwin
JADE BRACELETS	2	500	1000
BLUE SAPPHIRES	10	100	1000
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	3	60	180
SERPENTINE	1	20	20
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
GOLD MEDALLIONS	22	1	22
ELECTRUM SPIKES	40	0.5	20
			2477
Samantha
YELLOW TOPAZES	5	100	500
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	6	60	360
GREEN QUARTZ	1	10	10
NECKLACE	1	20	20
SPIDER/MACE PP	26	5	130
ELECTRUM SPIKES	110	0.5	55
GOLD MEDALLIONS	64	1	64
			1239
Grizella
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	5	60	300
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
ELECTRUM SPIKES	150	0.5	75
GOLD MEDALLIONS	9	1	9
			619
Adler
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	5	60	300
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
ELECTRUM SPIKES	150	0.5	75
GOLD MEDALLIONS	9	1	9
			619
Clift
BLACK DRUSY	1	100	100
JADEITE	5	60	300
SPIDER/MACE PP	27	5	135
ELECTRUM SPIKES	150	0.5	75
GOLD MEDALLIONS	9	1	9
			619

[Ginger]

That's some good spreadsheet work!

[venger]

arrowguy said:

That's some good spreadsheet work!

Outstanding, even. If he's willing to do this every time he should get like a 5% bonus.

Two minor things:

1) Characters such as Jasper and anyone with 18+ strength should probably be taking quantity over quality when it comes to gems and jewelry. Samantha has a negative modifier to her encumberance and here she's being loaded down with over 100 electrum spikes when a 50gp gemstone or something would suffice. Maybe that's something we can work out between party members.

2) And everyone should also maybe donate some small % to the Company if no share was allocated that way.

[Ginger]

As a general principle, the company funds should take a cut of any treasure distribution. However, the company is pretty well off right now.

Regarding the encumbrance, I think everything will just go in the Leomund's chest until we hit the town, and then we can liquefy our assets.

[venger]

arrowguy said:

However, the company is pretty well off right now.

Good to know. Copying the contents of these spellbooks into brand new traveling ones will take a considerable amount of gold.

[sam]

I'll admit that i don't truly understand all about how the "funds" work. I have read the threads about dividing out the shares etc. I also know that with things such as training, basically the money goes from one person's side of the share, toward another persons. However, I dont know which expenses are seen as "company" expenses and which are personal. Obviously, my character needs training and more spells. Therefore, ink and the necessary items. However, because of her inexperience, she doesn't get enough in her own "share" to fully pay for all these things. I don't know if there's an outline somewhere else. But basically, what do I have to pay for myself and what is the company willing to pay for while we're on the topic of gold.

[Ginger]

The company will pay for basically everything. Your share of the treasure is basically a bit of extra money that you can use to buy extra stuff you want. Regarding training, our mages should train you "for free." There's a base cost to pay for magical supplies and stuff which will come out of the company funds, but the vast bulk of training costs is just paying for the magic user's time. Since we're all on the same team here, it should be pro bono. The main "cost" of training is having to listen to the magic user who trained you nag about how much you owe him all the time.

[Dell]

arrowguy said:

The main "cost" of training is having to listen to the magic user who trained you nag about how much you owe him all the time.

Or a wish.

[venger]

dell said:

Or a wish.

::)

What a handy little emoticon.

That particular training, I believe, cost two wishes. One that was used for the "personal enhancement" that made the training actually possible and one that was used to fix Foebiter.