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victory
Jul 16, 2007 16:19:06 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 16, 2007 16:19:06 GMT -5
We should probably have Adler, Samantha and Grizzela stay about 50 ft. behind the back of the main rank. They're all demihumans (I think) and so can be in the dark trailing the party. We left Jasper, Pfiffwin and Adler behind at the campsite Dana didn't want to have to play all of Otto's and Raven's henchmen.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 16:20:27 GMT -5
Post by Dell on Jul 16, 2007 16:20:27 GMT -5
We should space the party out better to avoid these spells. I agree with this notion. We should probably have Adler, Samantha and Grizzela stay about 50 ft. behind the back of the main rank. They're all demihumans (I think) and so can be in the dark trailing the party. Clift points out that the bottle can hide the entire party in smoke. Dell points out that when your only magic item is a smoking bottle, every situation seems to call for smoke. Our full party is too large to be as tactically efficient as we can be. We need to split into smaller "fire teams" - 3 to 5 person units that travel together and support each other with spells and the like. When moving through the dungeon, the teams should travel 60' from each other - so they're only a half move away, but still out of the area of any hostile spell effect.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 16:31:22 GMT -5
Post by Mr. Trommer on Jul 16, 2007 16:31:22 GMT -5
The A Team: Otto Raven Dell Adrienne Jasper Antonus Cedrus
Team B: Hugh Winthrop Pfiffwin Clift Perrin
Team C: Samantha Grizela Adler
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 16:50:42 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 16, 2007 16:50:42 GMT -5
That doesn't make that much sense to me. Our party just isn't set up to work in independent units. We might just want to segment into PC/henchmen groups and have Antonus, Samantha, Perrin and Cedrus become their own group. Each group has fighting power and healing power (I count Otto's ring as healing power for him). It's not perfect, but it greatly simplifies things by keeping lines of command clear.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 17:23:29 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 16, 2007 17:23:29 GMT -5
We could split into 4 squads with each having roughly the same fighter, cleric, magic user and thief capabilities.
Dell - magic user/thief Adrienne - cleric/fighter Clift - thief
Otto - ranger (Pfiffwin - illusionist/thief) Cedrus - cleric Samantha - magic user
Raven - fighter (Jasper - monk) (Adler - cleric) Antonus - magic user Perrin - cleric
Winthrop - magic user Hugh - cleric Grizela - fighter (Al - fighter)
* () indicates not currently present.
This would certainly require more discipline than we have shown in the past. It would work as a good support system to the main character in the squad. I am not sure what we would do when someone polymorphs or goes running off at high speed. The depleted squad would either follow, move against a separate target or join another depleted squad but always remaining together.
Also splitting along henchmen lines makes it easier to maintain order.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 18:38:35 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 16, 2007 18:38:35 GMT -5
There are two types of party members. Those who tend to run off alone and those who don't. Run off: Raven Jasper Otto Dell Pfiffwin Winthrop Antonus Clift
Those who don't: Adrienne Cedrus Samantha Adler Perrin Hugh Grizela
The guys who like to run off can just fan out and do their own thing. The guys who stay put can hang back a round or two and then move en masse to wherever the enemies have swarmed. This is our current system, and it's not too bad. It's very simple and doesn't require any relearning.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 18:57:17 GMT -5
Post by venger on Jul 16, 2007 18:57:17 GMT -5
We've got enough high level mages that we can probably just set up a system for all this. When fighting powerful flying creatures with magic resistance, Dell casts fly on Adrienne, Winthrop casts fly on Otto and Antonus casts fly on Raven. When someone shouts "Magic resistant flying creatures!" everyone should run to their predetermined partner to minimize confusion and save time. Some system like that can surely work, right? If we're talking about teams, I like this system. Each magic-user and cleric should be assigned to a fighter. They should talk to each other and figure out what spells will be needed/wanted. Casters paired with Raven would memorize Flame Arrow, and something to get rid of charm spells - whoever is paired with Otto would memorize Fly or Run and Remove Paralysis.
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victory
Jul 16, 2007 19:48:24 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 16, 2007 19:48:24 GMT -5
We've got enough high level mages that we can probably just set up a system for all this. When fighting powerful flying creatures with magic resistance, Dell casts fly on Adrienne, Winthrop casts fly on Otto and Antonus casts fly on Raven. When someone shouts "Magic resistant flying creatures!" everyone should run to their predetermined partner to minimize confusion and save time. Some system like that can surely work, right? If we're talking about teams, I like this system. Each magic-user and cleric should be assigned to a fighter. They should talk to each other and figure out what spells will be needed/wanted. Casters paired with Raven would memorize Flame Arrow, and something to get rid of charm spells - whoever is paired with Otto would memorize Fly or Run and Remove Paralysis. And the fighters would get the fun of deciding which magic user and cleric were his favorities! ;D
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 8:18:49 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2007 8:18:49 GMT -5
There are two types of party members. Those who tend to run off alone and those who don't. Run off: Raven Jasper Otto Dell Pfiffwin Winthrop Antonus Clift Those who don't: Adrienne Cedrus Samantha Adler Perrin Hugh Grizela The guys who like to run off can just fan out and do their own thing. The guys who stay put can hang back a round or two and then move en masse to wherever the enemies have swarmed. This is our current system, and it's not too bad. It's very simple and doesn't require any relearning. It has worked ok in the past but there have certainly been cases when other approaches would have been better. There have been multiple times where Otto has gotten separated from any support and been overwhelmed (e.g. the recent drow combat, bugbears under the hill giant steading, clerics under Castle Crag). If he had a team that moved with him then they may have been able to prevent some of this. Also leaving the support staff behind allows them to be attacked en masse and allows the possibility of them being separated from the front group. We could make the distinction that low level support staff should stay back but others should move forward with their assigned lead.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 8:27:33 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2007 8:27:33 GMT -5
If we're talking about teams, I like this system. Each magic-user and cleric should be assigned to a fighter. They should talk to each other and figure out what spells will be needed/wanted. I think pairing up before and during combat is a good idea. The one caveat that I have is the use of dispel magic which would optimally come from a caster that isn't part of the team. We could have scrolls written by a caster from another team.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 9:43:34 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 17, 2007 9:43:34 GMT -5
Group 1: Otto, Winthrop, Hugh Group 2: Raven, Antonus, Cedrus Group 3: Adrienne, Dell Perrin and Samantha are sort of a group 4 in training.
This leaves free to do their own thing, Jasper, Adler, Clift, Grizella, and Pfifwin
So, if we're fighting demons, the first order of business is for each group to quickly cluster and give the fighter a Prot from Evil 10' radius and a fly spell, if he/she doesn't have them already.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 10:23:19 GMT -5
Post by venger on Jul 17, 2007 10:23:19 GMT -5
So, if we're fighting demons, the first order of business is for each group to quickly cluster and give the fighter a Prot from Evil 10' radius and a fly spell, if he/she doesn't have them already. How is the Protection from Evil 10' Radius going to help the rest of the "squad" when the fighter flies off to battle the demon in melee....?
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 10:30:34 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 17, 2007 10:30:34 GMT -5
If there's a fighter flying around engaging the demons in melee, they won't be worrying about the guys on the ground. The whole "The best defense is a good offense" kind of thing.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 11:07:18 GMT -5
Post by venger on Jul 17, 2007 11:07:18 GMT -5
If there's a fighter flying around engaging the demons in melee, they won't be worrying about the guys on the ground. The whole "The best defense is a good offense" kind of thing. Why not cast a regular Protection from Evil? If you are the center of a 10' radius Protection from Evil won't whatever summoned beast you're trying to attack be hedged away at 10', no matter what you do? You won't be able to close with it until you press it against a wall.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 11:39:40 GMT -5
Post by Dell on Jul 17, 2007 11:39:40 GMT -5
Under normal circumstances, the fighter will defend the magic user while the magic user lays waste to the area. With magic-resistant and/or flying creatures, the magic user is there to deliver the fighter to the target.
Grizella should be in Dell's group - he wants an extra fighter to make sure he can usually get a backstab in.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 12:37:54 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2007 12:37:54 GMT -5
Group 1: Otto, Winthrop, Hugh Group 2: Raven, Antonus, Cedrus Group 3: Adrienne, Dell Perrin and Samantha are sort of a group 4 in training. This leaves free to do their own thing, Jasper, Adler, Clift, Grizella, and Pfifwin So, if we're fighting demons, the first order of business is for each group to quickly cluster and give the fighter a Prot from Evil 10' radius and a fly spell, if he/she doesn't have them already. We should just have people in this marching order so there is no delay in clustering. I think it is more important to be prepared to fight powerful foes than have all of the fighters at the front. Also having a mix of abilities at the front of the group provides more flexibility for different situations.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 14:21:59 GMT -5
Post by venger on Jul 17, 2007 14:21:59 GMT -5
Winthrop had 2 Strength, 3 Flame Arrow’s so that Raven could get through Protection from Normal Missiles I like the teams, but it seems like Winthrop and Raven should pair up this time...
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 15:37:22 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 17, 2007 15:37:22 GMT -5
Maybe we pair off fighters with Fighter/clerics and MU's with full clerics? Otto/Perrin Raven/Adrienne Winthrop/Hugh Dell/Cedrus Otto is going to rush into the most dangerous place on the battlefield, and Perrin is nigh unhittable when defending. Raven needs someone to attack people who approach him so he doesn't have to move each round and lower his rate of fire. Winthrop and Dell both need a guy with a very low AC to keep them from getting mobbed.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 16:40:44 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2007 16:40:44 GMT -5
Maybe we pair off fighters with Fighter/clerics and MU's with full clerics? Otto/Perrin Raven/Adrienne Winthrop/Hugh Dell/Cedrus Otto is going to rush into the most dangerous place on the battlefield, and Perrin is nigh unhittable when defending. Raven needs someone to attack people who approach him so he doesn't have to move each round and lower his rate of fire. Winthrop and Dell both need a guy with a very low AC to keep them from getting mobbed. Otto is reconsidering his reckless combat style. He is still happy to take on the big bad evil but against a large group of like leveled opponents I think teamwork is the way to go. I vote for fighter/cleric/magic user groupings.
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victory
Jul 17, 2007 16:55:06 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 17, 2007 16:55:06 GMT -5
I definitely agree that we should have a different grouping system for regular fights and "boss" fights.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 8:24:27 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 18, 2007 8:24:27 GMT -5
Winthrop had 2 Strength, 3 Flame Arrow’s so that Raven could get through Protection from Normal Missiles I like the teams, but it seems like Winthrop and Raven should pair up this time... So that means Antonus is in the front row with Otto. Excellent. No more getting surprised. And you get to roll perception checks.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 9:29:20 GMT -5
Post by venger on Jul 18, 2007 9:29:20 GMT -5
So that means Antonus is in the front row with Otto. Excellent. No more getting surprised. And you get to roll perception checks. It's certainly an honor. The Detect Invisibility will wear off soon. Your Fly should last an hour or more. Antonus will polymorph for flight and make us both invisible. Hopefully we're staggering the marching order to avoid area of effect spells.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 14:45:44 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 18, 2007 14:45:44 GMT -5
So, we'll have Otto, Antonus and Cedrus in the lead. 30 feet behind them we'll have Raven, Winthrop and Hugh. 30 feet behind them we'll have Dell and Adrienne. 30 feet behind them will be everyone else. Is that the plan?
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 14:56:17 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 18, 2007 14:56:17 GMT -5
Since Jasper, Adler, and Pfiffwin are not here we should move Clift and Grisela up to Dell and Adrienne. Antonus will polymorph for flight and make us both invisible. Also no need to do invisibility just yet. The first door Otto has to open will negate it. Maybe once we start down the passage leading to the big altar room.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 14:58:23 GMT -5
Post by Wolfgar on Jul 18, 2007 14:58:23 GMT -5
The driders were burned, drow heads were collected and one lucky specimen was taken whole for purposes unclear... What does "one lucky specimen was taken whole" mean? Do we have drow prisoner? Did we try any questioning of the drow heads?
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 15:09:51 GMT -5
Post by Mr. Trommer on Jul 18, 2007 15:09:51 GMT -5
Invisibility is probably ineffective against the drow magic resistance anyway.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 15:38:17 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 18, 2007 15:38:17 GMT -5
The driders were burned, drow heads were collected and one lucky specimen was taken whole for purposes unclear... What does "one lucky specimen was taken whole" mean? Do we have drow prisoner? Did we try any questioning of the drow heads? While surveying the carnage in the altar room, we decided what to drag back out. Since there was a lot of weight, we couldn't bring everything. We grabbed all of the swords, crossbows, bucklers and one drow with his armor. I'll assume this was all forgotten on Sunday, but we could have questioned him. It does raise the interesting question of whether innate magic resistance would apply for a dead creature.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 15:39:58 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 18, 2007 15:39:58 GMT -5
Invisibility is probably ineffective against the drow magic resistance anyway. Nope, it works fine. The spell modifies you, not the drow, so he doesn't get a roll. That said, a 7th level drow F/MU with an intelligence of 18 is probably likely to detect an invisible creature anyway.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 15:43:06 GMT -5
Post by Ginger on Jul 18, 2007 15:43:06 GMT -5
Since Jasper, Adler, and Pfiffwin are not here we should move Clift and Grisela up to Dell and Adrienne. How far back is the campsite where we left them? If they're reasonably close to the mountain, it should only take a caster polymorphed into a falcon a few rounds to go tell them to come and fly back. Jasper, Adler and Pfiffwin can make it up the mountain on their own.
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victory
Jul 18, 2007 15:45:25 GMT -5
Post by Mr. Trommer on Jul 18, 2007 15:45:25 GMT -5
It was at our previous campsite so it is about seven hours away give or take.
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