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Post by Bolo on Apr 8, 2014 15:02:04 GMT -5
Good luck on Sunday, folks. We will be out of town.
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Post by venger on Apr 10, 2014 13:17:23 GMT -5
They're going to need it. Ahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 13, 2014 20:37:48 GMT -5
Crazy fight. Not quite done. Unfortunately some people died. There is no stopping Manahath.
Did Trommer and Holomir get saves against the withering effect of the staff of withering? According to the description there should be a save versus magic for this effect. Trommer failed his system shock against the aging so it doesn't really matter but I don't recall if Holomir got to save for losing his sword arm. Also I would say anything against which you get a saving throw versus magic you should also get magic resistance. If Holomir still had his sword arm then he could have still attacked the lich before the unholy word was spoken.
Speaking of which ... according the DMG, (un)holy word cannot be used to send a creature away if the speaker is not from the current plane. Dariel and Holomir would still have been stunned. The gnomes would have been killed. But they would at least still be here and we could use remove paralysis on them.
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Post by venger on Apr 14, 2014 12:45:06 GMT -5
Did Trommer and Holomir get saves against the withering effect of the staff of withering? According to the description there should be a save versus magic for this effect. I don't recall... if not I might have been conflating the staff effect with the 7th level cleric spell it replicates, Wither, which has no save. Also I would say anything against which you get a saving throw versus magic you should also get magic resistance. Creatures get magic resistance against spells and spell effects that have no savings throw. And there are plenty of special attacks from monsters (banshee wail) and magic items (sword, nine lives stealer) that necessitate a save vs. magic/spell but I wouldn't allow magic resistance. DMG: Magic Resistance - The percentage chance of any spell absolutely failing in the monster’s presence. Monster Manual II: MAGIC RESISTANCE is the chance a spell might fail when cast on the monster; this chance is expressed in a percentage. Anything that is arguably a spell being cast by an item or a caster, yes. A blanket resistance to all things magic, period? No. So I would be arguing that the Staff of Withering cast a spell, "Wither," on Holomir against which he should get a magic resistance check and, failing that, a savings throw. If Holomir still had his sword arm then he could have still attacked the lich before the unholy word was spoken. True, if he managed to hit... though I don't really like the idea of an NPC stealing the show, killing the BBEG... Speaking of which ... according the DMG, (un)holy word cannot be used to send a creature away if the speaker is not from the current plane. Dariel and Holomir would still have been stunned. The gnomes would have been killed. But they would at least still be here and we could use remove paralysis on them. Seems like new material is constantly appearing in this 30+ year old DMG. At least it was adjudicated correctly as per the PHB. I think in this case I might add additional charges to the Rod of Resurrection for any rulings made in error/DM oversight. Seems somehow fair...
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 14, 2014 14:49:16 GMT -5
Okay. I agree, blanket magic resistance isn't right. And Holomir should have gotten some rolls. Holomir would have gotten an attack at the end of the round that the lich charged and an attack before the word of recall. Also he gets a bonus to hit from the charge and a bonus to hit for spell casting. Even if he successfully hits the lich, I suppose Holomir's Dispel Evil wouldn't cause it to be returned to the PMP since it isn't a summoned creature.
I could see an argument that PfG should not have barred Dariel from attacking the lich. Dariel was summoned to the PMP, but he arrived to this plane via a gate. With respect to this plane, he is no longer a summoned creature. No more than the rest of the Party. The Lions of Mitra were summoned to this plane and as such cannot attack the lich (except maybe Jamalla).
Aah... the complications of trans-planar combats.
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Fin
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Fin on Apr 14, 2014 18:50:49 GMT -5
You're killing me. Who's dead, who's teetering, and where do we stand with the bad guys?
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 14, 2014 21:29:56 GMT -5
As we left it
For Team Mithra Casualties: Trommer, Nordel, Vashir, Tirian, gnomes I'm not dead yet: Lammasu 1 Sent Home: Dariel, Holomir, gnomes Unconscious: Dan Held: Colby, Youssef Fleeing in terror: Haidar, gnomes About to be paste: Paavo Active: Fin, Mary, Azhbar, Grimstone, Murkey, Lammasu 2, 8 Lions of Mitra, gnomes.
For Team Set Casualties: many minions, scorpion devil, some skeletons Stinking Clouded: 1 minion Fled: Pit Fiend, scorpion devil Active: Pneusset (21st level lich cleric), Manahath (22nd level monster (i.e. 176 h.p.), out of fireballs and lightning bolts, 5 attack routines)
I may have missed some things.
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 15, 2014 11:26:03 GMT -5
What I find odd is the behavior of the lesser demons and devils. According to the MM, regarding demons it says
And regarding devils it says
Yet these guys always run and hide when the battle looks bad for them. We have lost a fair amount of x.p. as a result of this behavior.
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Post by Ginger on Apr 15, 2014 15:04:11 GMT -5
I think the downed Lammasu was stabilized before dying, so he could be brought back to fighting shape with some effort.
"Sent Home" has a much better ring to it than "banished from this plane of existence." Although being banished from Hades back to the Prime Material Plane sounds not bad. I wonder where on the PMP Holomir went? Maybe he could get some more blood out of Konah and get back to us after a few more rounds.
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Post by Ginger on Apr 15, 2014 16:17:34 GMT -5
One of the summoned Lions was killed by Manahath's lightning bolt, so we only have 7. I think 3 or 4 still can charge, and they should charge Manahath. I don't think he's protected from good, so they should be able to hit him. One should bring Dan back to consciousness. Maybe some of the army of gnomes could carry Yussef to Colby, or vice versa, so we could use one remove paralysis on both from the remaining lammasu.
Is Murky big enough that he can swoop the Minion of Set in the stinking cloud without getting his face in it? He'd obviously lose his bite attack, but I think he could use his claws while keeping his neck elevated. Otherwise maybe he could land near the remaining Minion and tail it to death.
For firepower, Colby has a Magic Missile, Lightning Bolt, Wall of Fire, Wall of Ice, and Cone of Cold. MM is definitely going on Pneusset. For the others, both Manahath and the lich have good elemental resistances. I'm thinking Ice vs. Manahath and fire vs. the lich would be best. I'm currently worried about dropping a Wall of Fire and accidentally doing more damage to our own guys than the monsters. I will use the ring of shooting stars to Faerie Fire them both, but that's down the priority list.
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 15, 2014 17:55:13 GMT -5
I counted Jamalla as one of the 8 Lions. I figured she would stick around even if Nordel was dead.
Why not use the earth gem to Sink one of them? It is a one shot deal but they could always fail. No worse than the green box - which someone should grab.
BTW, with Dariel's +28 hit points and since he is a monster, that makes him 14th level for the purpose of saves. That would mean he would only be deafened by the unholy word. He would have chewed up the lich then.
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Fin
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Fin on Apr 15, 2014 18:33:40 GMT -5
Holy Schlamoly! Fin's still alive? Will wonders never cease. Has he helped in any way, or just stayed out of line of sight? Just curious.
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 15, 2014 20:13:46 GMT -5
Between the paucity of players and all of the extra characters, he pretty much avoided confrontation. He did release the lion which unfortunately didn't fare well between fumbling and a couple of walls of fire. If he has some magic missiles left now would be an excellent time to use them against the lich.
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 15, 2014 20:24:48 GMT -5
What saved us is that we split up and avoided area of effect spells from Manahath. If we can keep the lich from casting spells by hitting him with magic missiles (he is immune to cold and electricity), then we should be able to gang up on Manahath. Manahath will do a lot of damage but hopefully the lions and Murkey can pound on him. Once the lich is dead, Manahath will likely flee.
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Post by Ginger on Apr 15, 2014 22:05:26 GMT -5
Fin backstabbed a Minion of Set with his borrowed shortsword of Mitra.
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Post by venger on Apr 16, 2014 11:08:17 GMT -5
What I find odd is the behavior of the lesser demons and devils. According to the MM, regarding demons it says And regarding devils it says Yet these guys always run and hide when the battle looks bad for them. I feel that's for randomly encountered demon/devils. Still, for the most part, it's true in this campaign. Type I demons rarely, if ever, flee. If they're summoned for a purpose/task, or being directed by a greater demon/devil, they're going to operate differently however. Some random thoughts: Our house rules for PfE change the tactics of demons/devils a little bit. The MM2 introduced a bunch of weaker devils which I feel bumped bone devils up in the hierarchy from lesser to intermediate status. Demons/devils will flee from angels. In the past demons have fled when the DM wants to move things along. Those scorpion devils should have been casting Charm Person a lot. I think for a party as advanced as this, the tactics in the Monster Manual are somewhat outmoded. Dragons encountered are not going to have a % chance of being asleep in their lair, nor will they use their breath weapons randomly. Frank Mentzer boasted that he could TPK any party with a one-armed eriynes devil. I won't go that far, but devils are extremely nasty and hard to kill. We have lost a fair amount of x.p. as a result of this behavior. I wouldn't be concerned about that. The surviving members of the party are receiving a flat experience reward for defeating or escaping the Dark Tower. I wonder where on the PMP Holomir went? Maybe he could get some more blood out of Konah and get back to us after a few more rounds. He's stunned 2-8 rounds and slowed from the Unholy Word, but yes this has been considered. Assuming the bone devil and Metu-en-neteru (Metu N. Neteru) aren't eviscerating him in the Dark Tower... BTW, with Dariel's +28 hit points and since he is a monster, that makes him 14th level for the purpose of saves. That would mean he would only be deafened by the unholy word. He would have chewed up the lich then. Interesting thought. I should put savings throws on his sheet. There is no save against (Un)holy Word. It affects hit dice/level. Maybe it's semantic, but while Dariel's hit dice are 7+28, he's not actually 14th level because he's a monster. He isn't a leveled character with 2 million experience points. Also for hit dice purposes isn't a 14th level fighter still only 9+15 hit dice? Need to review his THAC0/damage as well. He probably shouldn't be specialized and attacking as a monster. For purposes of to-hit rolls he is either a 8HD monster with 3 attacks on his initiative for 1d8+6 or a 7th level double-specialized fighter, 2/1 attacks for 1d8+9. ...they should charge Manahath. I don't think he's protected from good, so they should be able to hit him. Yeah but I think now he's within 10' of the lich. HAHAHAHA Is Murky big enough that he can swoop the Minion of Set in the stinking cloud without getting his face in it? He'd obviously lose his bite attack, but I think he could use his claws while keeping his neck elevated. Otherwise maybe he could land near the remaining Minion and tail it to death. The cloud (20') is half the size of Murkey (40'). And he has a minor case of T-Rex arms. Tail slap doesn't do any damage, I don't think... possibly just more stunning.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Apr 16, 2014 15:54:08 GMT -5
Drop heavy objects, like dead gnomes, onto the clouded minion. This should be equal to a thrown weapon from the dragon. Damage by height and weight I would think.
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Post by Ginger on Apr 16, 2014 17:10:05 GMT -5
Drop heavy objects, like dead gnomes, onto the clouded minion. This should be equal to a thrown weapon from the dragon. Damage by height and weight I would think. Colby will summon a Mount above the Minion in the cloud.
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Fin
Junior Member
Posts: 81
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Post by Fin on Apr 17, 2014 5:44:07 GMT -5
Fin's up for some magic missile action. He'll also look to try to backstab the lich...YOLO.
Good call on dropping something heavy on the minion. Any dead demons/devils/minions hanging about? They'd be heavier than gnomes, I'd think.
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Post by Wolfgar on Apr 21, 2014 14:45:53 GMT -5
I think the minion is the least of our concerns. The lich is top priority. It is already reeling from a number of MM. We need to keep hitting it before it can heal itself.
I had an oversight regarding Dan. He should have sucked up the lightning bolt from Manahath on his ioun stone. Not that it makes much of a difference since he is almost out of spells. Still he could have gotten off another Prayer. Maybe he is just playing opossum.
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Post by Ginger on Apr 21, 2014 16:27:04 GMT -5
I don't dispute that the minion is a minor threat, but Murky can't fight in the narrow passage without shrinking, so I'm trying to think of a way he can still be useful.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Apr 22, 2014 20:44:49 GMT -5
Murky should barrel roll on the minion. A lot. Or do a series of belly flops. It would be humorous if nothing else.
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Post by venger on Apr 23, 2014 9:27:26 GMT -5
The lich is top priority. ... We need to keep hitting it before it can heal itself. Reading the description of Cure Light Wounds, I don't think an undead cleric can actually heal itself with spells. I don't dispute that the minion is a minor threat, but Murky can't fight in the narrow passage without shrinking, so I'm trying to think of a way he can still be useful. If Manahath can fit in the passage, Murkey can fit in the passage.
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Post by venger on Apr 23, 2014 9:29:04 GMT -5
Murky should barrel roll on the minion. A lot. Or do a series of belly flops. It would be humorous if nothing else. There is a dragon attack mechanism for hovering over an opponent and dropping on top of it with crushing weight.
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