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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 16, 2012 14:07:34 GMT -5
Previously we have used polymorph self as a way to provide healing. This has been particularly useful to demons and devils that can use this ability at will. However I think we have been misreading the description of the spell. It says: Damage to the polymorphed form is computed as if it were inflicted upon the magic-user, but when the magic-user returns to his or her own form, from 1 to 12 (d12) points of damage are restored. A more accurate interpretation of this is that damage suffered while in another shape can be healed. But damage suffered before taking another shape cannot be healed. So a magic user (or shape changer) can use this spell before they are in combat to change shape into something similar to themselves. Then at any point during the duration of the spell, they can revert to their original form healing a d12 of the damage, if any, they received in this altered form. No damage received prior to transformation could be healed. Furthermore, assuming the duration of the spell has not passed, a magic user could again change form, receive additional damage and again heal some of that additional damage but reverting for a second time. But again none of the damage received prior to the latest transformation (including damage suffered during the first transformation that was unhealed after the first reversion) would be healed by the second reversion. This means that demons and devils do not have the ability to run off and heal up using polymorph self repeatedly. They could use this in combat but then a careful tracking of damage would need to be done. I know this is more complicated to manage but I think it is a more accurate interpretation. Also it has the effect of making the spell more powerful for magic users and less powerful for demons and devils. So I am a fan. Thoughts? |
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 16, 2012 14:22:33 GMT -5
Example:
Polymorph self is cast by a magic user. And he takes the shape of a magic user slightly lighter than normal. He has a max of 30 hit points but was damaged earlier for 4 points. So at the time of first transformation he has 26 hit points.
In a subsequent combat he takes 6 additional damage putting him at 20 hit points. After the combat he reverts to his original form. He rolls a d12 and gets an 8. He is able to heal the 6 hit points he took while transformed but the surplus 2 does not heal previously sustained damage. So he is at 26 hit points.
Now since it is a long duration spell he has time to transform again before the next combat. During the next fight he suffers 15 damage. The next round his action is to revert to his normal form. He gets another d12, lets say he gets 10 back. He is now at 21. The following round he transforms again. At which point he is injured for another 3. The combat ends and he is able to resume his normal form for the third time. The most he can heal is the 3 points of damage he took during the latest transformation. The 5 points of unhealed damage he took during the second transformation is off limits.
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Post by venger on Feb 16, 2012 15:43:13 GMT -5
I have absolutely no desire to complicate the tracking of hit points.
Further, I'm opposed to allowing a magic-user to be healed more than once from a single casting of Polymorph Self.
And considering our house rules for Protection from Evil I'm not inclined to make the various demons/devils that can polymorph less powerful than they are now.
I was a little iffy on Dana's interpretation of Polymorph Self at-will, but now that I'm running the monsters I've got no problem with it.
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 16, 2012 23:33:39 GMT -5
Ahh... The polymorph spells. Here is a great thread on this subject on DF www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40031For those that are interested a little background is in order. Bill Bisco,the OP, is one of my all time favorite trolls. On the surface, this appears to be a stubborn guy arguing about a spell on a forum. What's really going on is that a "New School" gamer is coming in and indirectly putting down "Old School" gamers by pointing out the open-endedness of the system and possible "power" exploits created by poor and incomplete descriptions in the AD&D rule set (which I think we can all agree is a valid criticism), and getting a HUGE response. This guy had another classic thread about the thief class which I consider to be his greatest work ever. This was his capstone thread in my opinion and truly a masterful demonstration of trolling at it's finest. (plus he makes lots of good points) |
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Post by venger on Jun 23, 2012 8:13:49 GMT -5
Colby could have used Polymorph Self to swim around the wreck as a small fish. Then transform into a nixie, fill a bag, transform back into a fish, swim back to the party. Repeating until everything is off the wreck. Colby can transform into a small fish. He can transform into a nixie. He cannot transform into a nixie with a bag. Colby would need to transform back to his normal form to have access to his inventory, regaining d12 hit points. Then, I guess technically he could fill a bag and try to cast polymorph self again. I'm OK with the leeway we've granted in the past for polymorph self and possessions; whereby they "disappear" until you turn back to your normal form. But you shouldn't have unlimited access to these items while polymorphed. And using it for short term storage/to defeat encumbrance makes me uncomfortable. Otherwise he can't polymorph with items whatsoever. |
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jun 23, 2012 10:48:56 GMT -5
As a side note, I think the key aspect here is turning into something that doesn't have your possessions exposed. When Raven would turn into a centaur, he would have all his gear exposed and have access to it. This is different than internalizing items when you turn into a fish. In addition, there is a long precedent of using polymorph to get around encumbrance limits. The moat obvious is the polymorphing onto a bird to ride on someone else's teleport.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 23, 2012 12:19:13 GMT -5
How about this sequence?
-Colby transforms into a nixie
-Someone hands Colby a bag
-Colby then transforms into a fish
-He swims to the wreck
-Transform back into a nixie
Does he have the bag? Or did the bag get left behind when he transformed into a fish? Or has the bag disappeared into the ethereal?
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Post by venger on Jun 23, 2012 16:12:34 GMT -5
A magic-user can polymorph with his personal possessions**. If the shape is humanoid form, he can retain his equipment for use. If the shape doesn't allow this, the personal possessions are "internalized." Once something is "internalized," it is inaccessible until the magic-user resumes his true form. **He cannot pick up items and "internalize" them. Also there's a difference between polymorphing into a bird for teleport weight purposes and, say, heavily encumbering oneself to a 3" move and then polymorphing into an unencumbered form. It's Polymorph Self, not Polymorph Self-Storage. How about this sequence? -Colby transforms into a nixie -Someone hands Colby a bag -Colby then transforms into a fish -He swims to the wreck -Transform back into a nixie Does he have the bag? Or did the bag get left behind when he transformed into a fish? Or has the bag disappeared into the ethereal? Colby can transform into a fully dressed nixie holding a sack. Once he turns into a fish, though, the bag is left floating in the water. |
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Post by Wolfgar on Jun 23, 2012 17:25:20 GMT -5
Then there should be no problem with:
-Colby strips down to minimal gear
-Colby takes a bag
-transforms into a fish
-swims to the wreck
-transforms into a nixie holding a bag
-fills the bag
-transforms back into a fish
-swims back to party
-transforms back to Colby
-exchanges bag
-repeats
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Post by venger on Jun 23, 2012 18:34:47 GMT -5
Rereading this... Then there should be no problem with: -Colby strips down to minimal gear -Colby takes a bag -transforms into a fish -swims to the wreck -transforms into a nixie holding a bag -fills the bag I'm OK with this up to here. Although transforming into a nixie with a bag is pushing it. You really can't polymorph items in and out of you. We hand-wave where the items go when you polymorph. If you start abusing this, then items will not polymorph and the spell will lose a lot of functionality. There's no way I'd let him pick something up, then turn into something else and "internalize" it. Polymorph Self can't/won't be a temporary bag of holding. I don't want to get into defining personal possessions allowable to be polymorphed. Or have to come up with encumbrance limitations for polymorphing. He can turn into a horse and carry your stuff. He cannot carry your stuff and then turn into a horse and carry more stuff. |
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Post by venger on Feb 13, 2014 0:06:24 GMT -5
Polymorph Self transforms the caster on the round it is cast (if desired).
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