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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 2, 2012 14:55:06 GMT -5
So I am trying to decide what would make the most sense as the next adventure. Here are some thoughts on some of the possibilities. This will be a little rambling.
Once this round of training is done I think we are pretty well set for a while. So one option might be taking a trip that puts us far from civilization by visiting the ruins of one of the various ancient civilizations we have heard about. I am not sure that it would advance any of the current plot lines but it might uncover some nice treasure. We could revisit Ulshamaran to restock water of life and take another crack at the Vault of Elders but we would probably have a run-in with the Immortal King along the way. Recovering the Gauntlet would be a good thing, though we still don't know how to destroy it. Note this time around we could have 5 spellcaster who can use Dispel Magic - Colby, Finn, Mary, Ingrid and Dan. That would help with dealing with Polymorphing yuan-ti. We could get more armbands and power coins as well as some of those grenades.
Another option might be the Faerie Road and assorted side adventures. We could start by visiting Sionyl to discuss Friedrich's shadow, the displacer cloak and the Book of Shadows. Then we could get on the Road, visit the Vernal House, find/capture Friedrich's shadow and then look for the rain bird. Finding the rain bird would be a boon for those who lost levels to the vampires but not of much use to the rest of the party.
A third option might be heading into Denagoth and striking at the trolls, ettins and/or giants. These are relatively mundane creatures and we have seen how much damage we can do against these types. Taking out a bunch of these guys is a good way to get xp quickly. Of course they also deal out a lot of damage and are healing reservoir is low at the moment.
Also in Denagoth is the tower of the Shadowlord which I believe holds the Elven Star as well as one of Ukko's handmaidens. They could be in different towers. I am not sure what would be involved in finding these. We could use the Crown of High Kings for this.
We could also use it to find Red Tam's bones. But I forget what the point of finding his bones was. I guess it is one of the things needed by the Deadites. They also want a unicorn's horn (which we had), the Viper-Circled Mirror, the Ring of Eibon, and the Sword of Sylaire (which we have). So we could look for the other things on the list as well.
And there is the Temple of Death which Benesarion is of the opinion is vitally important. It is on a mountain peak in an unnamed mountain range south of the Great Eastern Forest. On the way there we could deal with Damned John O'Crewet and visit Fenhold.
I am intentionally ignoring the one off evil guys - Princess Katarina, Cathbad, Queen Istyria, Ravelthorn, Whisperer in the Dark, etc. All of these guys have shown that they can easily escape from us if they so choose. So it is a waste of time, in my mind, to track them down.
What else seem interesting?
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 2, 2012 16:52:48 GMT -5
I voted for the Faerie Road/Rain Bird/Shadow as well. Friedrich of course stands to gain the most by getting back lost XP and his shadow but 4/7 PC's were level drained. After that, I say we go restock our healing potions. So what if we have to deal with a lich? We just fought an ultrodeamon completely unprepared. At least this time, we'll know what to expect (unless Eddie throws something else at us, which he probably will). The guardian will be a much more manageable fight this time. Friedrich and Trommer will be going at 2 attacks/round with better THACO's, HP's weapons and armor. Plus Mary Tanner will haste Friedrich. He's got a 19 con so he can't fail his system shock survival role and who cares if he ages one year, he's a dwarf, they live to be 400 years old or something like that. MUHAHAHAA
Then, I agree that slaying giants is our forte. Trommer's ranger bonus to damage and Friedrich being practically unhittable, with his AC dropped to -8 (including Paavo PfE) and Danekes shooting over me is lethal. By then we should have 3 MU's casting 3rd level spells as well.
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Post by agesilaus on Feb 2, 2012 20:38:10 GMT -5
Fin's not opposed to going after giants, Temples o' Death, Damned John O'Crewet or whatever. But he disagrees with Paavo on the vampiress, Cathbad, Queen Itchyia, Kim Basinger's Rottweiler Phil, etc. Best to take the fight to the enemy on ground of your choosing, rather than waiting around for them to come up on you all unawares-like, invisible and from behind. Fin should know. So, Devonshire by way of Shank's mare first, level up, buy stuff ad nauseum. Then whatever y'all want to do. But when we get bushwhacked by Katarina, Cathbad or whoever, Fin won't say "I tol' ya so." He'll holler it.
One follow up question: do any of Ukko's handmaidens have huge...tracts of land?
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 3, 2012 10:39:10 GMT -5
I agree that once we have 3 or 4 double-specialized 7th level fighters we will be amazing against giants and the like. We may not have the hit points of 12th level fighters but we will be doing damage like non-specialized fighters of that level. So yeah I think it makes sense to wait on trolls/ettins/giants.
I personally dislike adventures that deal with the Fae. Pranks and curses, neutral creatures that are easily offended, "non linear thinking" and encounters that earn no-xp do not make for a fun time. So that rules out the Faerie Road and likely Red Tam's bones.
I guess I would vote for the Temple of Death. I am always up for destroying another Deadite base.
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 3, 2012 17:56:12 GMT -5
I personally dislike adventures that deal with the Fae. Pranks and curses, neutral creatures that are easily offended, "non linear thinking" and encounters that earn no-xp do not make for a fun time. So that rules out the Faerie Road and likely Red Tam's bones. I agree regarding the Fae. They are incredibly annoying and unpredictable. Double specialization and maxed out strength don't help much when your shadow inexplicably decides that it wants to run away. But I would still like to get my shadow back. Infavision is a nice ability and having to ride in a little wagon behind the horses is embarrising to a proud dwarf such as Friedrich. >:( But I agree that the less we have to deal with them the better. Temple of Death sounds pretty cool as well. PfE(Eddie's favorite ability) will be quite useful there.
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 3, 2012 18:33:42 GMT -5
By the way if anybody wants to have a good laugh at my expense they can go check this thread out of DF. www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=54035 It's actually a pretty interesting discussion primarily comparing the ranger to the fighter but the paladin is also talked about, and how the demi-human (dwarf and half-orc) fighter stacks up to the human ranger considering a whole bunch of trade offs. Guess which side i'm arguing?
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Post by Bolo on Feb 3, 2012 22:05:20 GMT -5
For the party as a whole, the potential return of 104,500 xp from the rainbird plotline seems like too good of a deal to pass up. So I'm going to vote for that track, even though Bolo will get less out of it than the folks who were level drained.
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 6, 2012 11:07:09 GMT -5
As a lawful good paladin, Paavo would argue that the greater good would come from preventing the Deadites from releasing Zargon. But he understands that not everything that the party does can be directed by his desires. And this will be beneficial to the members of the party including himself. He is willing to join the party on this adventure and hopes that once these side missions are complete we can once again strike at the forces of evil. He just prays to Ukko that we are not too late.
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Post by Ginger on Feb 6, 2012 11:19:31 GMT -5
Getting a tear of the rain bird will give Paavo an extra 30K experience points, right? For a paladin, I'd imagine that your XP is a close translation of your divine favor. Thus this quest would greatly increase his favor with Ukko, no? His relationship with his deity was disrupted by negative energy and he should restore it. I think he'd be a bad paladin not to go!
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 6, 2012 11:40:06 GMT -5
He fully admits that finding the rain bird could help restore some of his life essence (which is of course sacred in the eyes of Ukko). It just seems that preventing the release of some really, really bad guy is more directly good. But he realizes he can't do it alone. And hopes that once restored the party will be ready and willing to join him. He will pray to Ukko and hope for some divine message regarding the urgency of stopping the Deadites.
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Post by venger on Feb 6, 2012 11:43:46 GMT -5
A third option might be heading into Denagoth and striking at the trolls, ettins and/or giants. These are relatively mundane creatures and we have seen how much damage we can do against these types. Taking out a bunch of these guys is a good way to get xp quickly. Also in Denagoth is the tower of the Shadowlord which I believe holds the Elven Star as well as one of Ukko's handmaidens. They could be in different towers. We could also use it to find Red Tam's bones. But I forget what the point of finding his bones was. Troll/ettins/giants are three separate locations north of Denagoth, near Pohjola. There is but one dark tower in Denagoth. It's the same one from Marcus' fate vision, the same one from Paavo's dream and the same one where the Shadowlord holds the Elven Star. There was something Red Tam knew that everyone wanted. Friedrich and Trommer will be going at 2 attacks/round with better THACO's, HP's weapons and armor. Bear in mind when considering your plans that learning a new attack routine will require training & training cost. I personally dislike adventures that deal with the Fae. Pranks and curses, neutral creatures that are easily offended, "non linear thinking" and encounters that earn no-xp do not make for a fun time. That's a pretty fair depiction of the Faerie. But there is XP to be had (in addition to regaining lost XP) and I think these adventures will be a lot of fun. The tears of the rainbird will restore anything lost, so the negative fountain effects, etc. could be removed. Do the elves know anything else about the Sword of Sylaire? The Deadites wanted it for some ritual. Any idea why? Sylaire was a powerful fae sorceress who aided the Forest Kingdom is ages past, she is mostly responsible for the Faerie Compact; the rules by which the Fae interact with mortals. She made the sword to slay dragons, so unless the ritual involves killing a dragon...?
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 6, 2012 11:59:55 GMT -5
The tears of the rainbird will restore anything lost, so the negative fountain effects, etc. could be removed. So Friedrich could have restored experience points drained by the vampires, the hit points lost to the Zargon statues, the hit points lost to the fountain and possibly his shadow. That would be quite a boon. Will it restore Dan Danbury to his original comely self? His low charisma was caused by a child accidental which left his face terribly scared. Or at least that is what he has told Paavo. BTW, who has the charisma brush? Dan would like it.
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Post by venger on Feb 6, 2012 12:30:23 GMT -5
So Friedrich could have restored experience points drained by the vampires, the hit points lost to the Zargon statues, the hit points lost to the fountain and possibly his shadow. That would be quite a boon. Probably not the HP back from the Zargon curse. I wouldn't consider them technically lost as they're animating the tattoo on his arm/still part of him. But maybe. And I think he'd be cured of the ill-effects (color-blindness, mild dysphoria) of having lost his shadow, but not actually have his shadow returned to him, so he would still unnerve natural creatures. Will it restore Dan Danbury to his original comely self? His low charisma was caused by a child accidental which left his face terribly scared. Or at least that is what he has told Paavo. No. turns out he also has a bad personality. :)
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 6, 2012 12:33:30 GMT -5
Bear in mind when considering your plans that learning a new attack routine will require training & training cost. When you say "new attack routine" you are talking about two-weapon fighting, right? Would we have to train to take advantage of our increased attack rate that is function of reaching 7th level? Mary Tanner currently has the brush. I guess she could give it up but I feel that it goes well with her already fairly high charisma (14). Plus, Friedrich, having a very average charisma (10) is probably going to need to see to it that she gets her share of the party loot in order to keep her loyal as gains levels and the gap between them shrinks. Having a henchwoman that is able to cast 3rd level MU spells is an incredible asset.
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Post by venger on Feb 6, 2012 13:26:49 GMT -5
When you say "new attack routine" you are talking about two-weapon fighting, right? Would we have to train to take advantage of our increased attack rate that is function of reaching 7th level? Fighter attack routines: 1/1, 3/2, 2/1, 5/2 You trained for 3/2 when you specialized. You'll need to train for 2/1.
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Post by Ginger on Feb 6, 2012 14:03:42 GMT -5
Has anyone used the brush? How exactly does it function? Do you use it once and get a permanent bonus? Does it work daily (weekly?) to give a temporary bonus? Does it have charges?
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Post by Ginger on Feb 6, 2012 14:18:52 GMT -5
I'd probably opt for going to the Tower after visiting the rain bird. It will help solidify Marcus's loyalty, and it's been a quest for Paavo for quite a while. We're clearly in need of clerical support, and maybe it could help us get a cleric of Ukko somewhere down the line.
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Post by venger on Feb 6, 2012 14:32:41 GMT -5
Has anyone used the brush? How exactly does it function? Do you use it once and get a permanent bonus? Does it work daily (weekly?) to give a temporary bonus? Does it have charges? Not that I'm aware of. You'll have to figure that out. No. No. No.
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Post by Bolo on Feb 6, 2012 17:41:56 GMT -5
It's hard to get good clerical support these days.
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Post by Friedrich on Feb 6, 2012 18:07:34 GMT -5
When you say "new attack routine" you are talking about two-weapon fighting, right? Would we have to train to take advantage of our increased attack rate that is function of reaching 7th level? Fighter attack routines: 1/1, 3/2, 2/1, 5/2 You trained for 3/2 when you specialized. You'll need to train for 2/1. All the more reason to do the Rain Bird quest then. This way Friedrich, Trommer and Paavo will all hit 7th level at the same time and thus can train together. Mary used the brush in her failed attempt to get the merchant to sell her a secret stash of pearls. When I asked what effects Mary feels after brushing her hair, I was told, "she feels pretty". So no, we don't know how it works yet.
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Post by venger on Feb 6, 2012 18:51:58 GMT -5
This way Friedrich, Trommer and Paavo will all hit 7th level at the same time and thus can train together. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The most cost efficient way would be for Trommer or Paavo to learn first from a swordmaster, then train the other. Friedrich will need to learn this from an axe specialist. Mary used the brush in her failed attempt to get the merchant to sell her a secret stash of pearls. When I asked what effects Mary feels after brushing her hair, I was told, "she feels pretty". So no, we don't know how it works yet. Oh that's right.
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Post by agesilaus on Feb 6, 2012 19:50:33 GMT -5
Fin wants to find someone who will train him on how to make awesome buffalo wings. He keeps having these visions of wingless bison, wandering aimlessly....
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Post by Ginger on Feb 6, 2012 20:08:09 GMT -5
This way Friedrich, Trommer and Paavo will all hit 7th level at the same time and thus can train together. Unfortunately it doesn't work like that. The most cost efficient way would be for Trommer or Paavo to learn first from a swordmaster, then train the other. Friedrich will need to learn this from an axe specialist. I'm more concerned about time away from adventuring. This way we'll get it all done in one go instead of having to deal with the pressures to prematurely pause in a dungeon to go train.
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 7, 2012 12:08:14 GMT -5
Any chance we are going to make it further on the list before this weekend? If not I will make sure to print it out to make sure everything is gotten to when appropriate.
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Post by Ginger on Feb 7, 2012 13:16:16 GMT -5
It seems to me that everything else requires us to be in Devonshire, and we can't just waltz across occupied territory on the board.
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 7, 2012 13:25:09 GMT -5
Sure you can! You just need to queue the travel montage.
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Post by venger on Feb 7, 2012 14:50:11 GMT -5
Any parting words before you abandon these elves to their fate? Were you intending to leave behind any of those magic items as mentioned? Did you have any clever schemes for escaping Denagoth? You might want to come up with some.
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 7, 2012 15:51:07 GMT -5
Can we arrange for a guide to meet us in Devonshire in 4 weeks time? They should come to Lord Sherlane's manor. That should hopefully give us time to return to Devonshire and complete training. If Bunny is our guide will she join us now?
Can they show us on a map where the tower of the Shadowlord is? Do they have any advice on how to enter it safely (e.g. how to turn off the shield generator)? Anything we should know about the Elven Star if we are successful in locating it?
Is there any token the Silver Princess is willing to give us that indicates to the Fae that we are in her favor? Would such a thing be useful in dealing with the Fae?
Any advice on finding the Rain Bird or coaxing its tears from it?
I say we leave behind the harp, the teacup and the music box. If someone wants them they should speak up.
Some thoughts on travel:
The party going to Devonshire is Trommer, Colby, Friedrich, Paavo, Finn, Bolo, Danakes, Ingrid, Dan, Marcus, Mary, and possibly Bunny. We have approximately a week of travel. We want to avoid confrontations with large groups. We want to quickly incapacitate smaller groups without giving them a chance to alert others.
Slow will be useful against enemies that are trying to flee. Finnious should move faster than just about anyone in the forest. So he can run down anyone who tries to escape.
Disguising our noise will be difficult for the non-ranger, non-elves in the party. The quietest way to move is to take off armor. I would suggest doing that for those in metal armor.
Invisibility could make thing difficult. How do we stay together? Who leads? We could have everyone but the rangers and elves be invisible. Then everyone else has to follow them. Or the main party could stay visible and have the rangers and elves (invisible) act as forward scouts. Hopefully far enough ahead to see anything before the main party encounters it. Maybe having part of the main party invisible would also work.
Someone wearing the helm of telepathy could use it to send back an advanced warning of approaching hostiles.
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Post by Bolo on Feb 7, 2012 17:33:54 GMT -5
Surely the harp, teacup, and music box are valuable as curios? Even if we have no practical use for them, presumably we could sell them and use the money for training costs or to buy stuff. Or just keep them as loot, like we keep other valuables. Can someone remind me why we're thinking of leaving these behind? Is this a "rangers and paladins can't have more than N magic items" thing?
Bolo is more silent than the rangers or the elves (99% thief ability to move silently). He'd be happy to be made invisible and act as a forward scout.
He'd also be happy to use the helm of telepathy as a silent walkie talkie to the rest of the party. Do we know what the range is? I believe we determined in the Pit that it is blocked by solid earth. I would imagine that trees in a forest would also block it to some degree. I guess we can experiment with that.
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Post by Wolfgar on Feb 7, 2012 19:11:51 GMT -5
It is definitely a paladin thing. Paavo doesn't want to take these items. If someone else wants them and is responsible for any fall out from having them in their possession, then they can take them. There is likely no harm in taking the teacup or the music box. But the Silver Princess has said the harp should be returned to the Winter Queen. If Winter Queen comes looking for it I will point her at whoever takes it. Also the elves seem downtrodden - a little music would probably be good for them.
The thief ability to move silently does not translate into the ability to surprise while moving at a normal movement rate traveling through a forest. While trying to move silently thieves move at 1/10 their normal movement rate. Rangers, elves and halflings do have the ability to surprise when not in metal armor and at least 90' in advance of the party. So Bolo could be used as a scout as well. I think a line of 4 scouts spread over 300' should be effective at detecting threats well in advance.
Trommer should get a new bow and arrows if he has not already done so.
The helm has a range of 60'. Which is not as far as the distance needed to gain the surprise bonus. So it is probably not going to be as useful. How are your bird calls?
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