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Post by Wolfgar on Jan 23, 2012 11:29:41 GMT -5
I am sure the ultrodaemon hopped out of Colby once we had made it to the base. They should move as quickly as possible. Dan would have confirmed Paavo detect evil once we were away from the castle.
Is Bunny joining us? Who gets her as a henchman? I hope the elves took Radishblatt and his friend. Or we ditched them somewhere.
Can we get a list of the new magic items so we can start dickering over them? Or was there an amenable distribution in game?
Will there be time to train before we hit the fairy road?
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Post by Ginger on Jan 23, 2012 12:36:57 GMT -5
I got the impression that the elves would leave camp sooner than we would finish our training. Bolo seemed concerned that we warn the Barony promptly about the assassination plot we stumbled upon. I think that suggests we try to take the faerie road to Devonshire or Hadrith Tor to train.
We got a ton of stuff, including a bunch of neat spellbooks!! The ruby sword is heavily enchanted. The silver book will give a level to any good magic user. Given how it's value increases dramatically for higher level casters, it seems like an excellent bargaining chip for Sherlane.
The goblins were terrified of being eaten by the elves, so they fled before we reached the camp. Nobody asked about Bunny.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jan 23, 2012 14:14:54 GMT -5
I would guess Sherlane isn't much higher than 7th. But if you want to trade the book that is fine with me. What do you think you can get for it? He hasn't had a lot he has been willing to trade. The DMG gives a GP value of 40,000 for it but that seems rather low given that a high level magic user could get 550,000+ xp from studying it.
It is kind of odd. The campaign has introduced a number of things that are highly beneficial to magic users (Feldspar's book that give 5000 xp, the existence of ley lines which increase the power of magic spells, ritual magic, a bunch of new spells, a ton of spell books, a libram of silver magic), and yet there are relatively very few (good) magic users to be found. If I had known there was going to be all this stuff for magic users then I would have played one.
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Post by Ginger on Jan 23, 2012 14:35:32 GMT -5
I think the neat new MU-centric stuff is offset by the official censure against magic use by the church. Remember how long it took us to get Magic Missile?
Ritual magic is cool, and now that I can write scrolls I'll create some cool ritual summons that we can do.
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Post by venger on Jan 23, 2012 14:59:25 GMT -5
Ley Lines work for magic-users & druids. Points of Power and Ritual Magick work for all sub-classes of spellcaster, cleric or magic-user. (but these are mostly for my NPC casters to perform spectacular feats of magic that would otherwise be impossible by the book without me having to gloss over the mechanics - this isn't something you're going to be using every session)
A 1st level magic-user, even with a couple bonus spells, is laughably ineffective when compared to a 18/00 strength 1st level specialized fighter. Hence Feldspar's book, which was an experiment of mine.
The Palace of the Silver Princess had a Libram of Silver Magic. That just sorta felt right to me.
I have a bunch of new spells for clerics but the party doesn't seem very interested in organized religion and has a stand-offish relationship with the Church authorities.
As far as fighters go, there is great opportunity to advance in social status (knighthood and lordships) as well as to lead men in combat. Not so much for unarmored types who will find these doors shut to them for lack of martial prowess.
There's stuff for everyone (my thief subplots are a little light, but that's because they would be solo adventures, I'm working on it guys).
Paavo's advancement in special paladin powers is in limbo until he completes that dream-quest and rescues the angel air-maiden of Ukko.
As far as the campaign being magic-user centric, like David just pointed out, it most assuredly is not. Colby will find it increasingly more difficult and expensive to advance in levels/magical power, to the point where he is unable without making certain concessions.....
Most magic-users are evil because as we all know the Dark Side is the quickest way to power and the Church heavily sanctions magic use in civilized lands. It's only going to get worse with the Inquisition.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jan 23, 2012 15:37:12 GMT -5
I guess I see the magic user stuff as especially useful for adventuring. Lordships and leading men in combat is nice but it doesn't really apply in a dungeon setting. The sanction on magic is onerous for training but offers no hindrance in a dungeon setting. New spells for clerics might be nice. But I don't think Ingrid or Dan cast a spell other than Detect Traps and Cure Light Wounds in the current adventure. It will be worse now that we have run out of healing potions.
I have always considered new spells for magic users similar to a new magic item for other characters. It is not a one-to-one correspondence. (Though in previous campaigns trading a magic item for a new spell was not unheard of.) So magic users getting lots of new spells as well as items only they can use seems imbalanced. I am sure other people see it differently.
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Post by venger on Jan 23, 2012 17:53:45 GMT -5
I guess I see the magic user stuff as especially useful for adventuring. Just because it is new does not mean it is useful. Many of the new spells are of dubious utility, some are outright useless (Colby's Mistake, Strange Waters, Mary's new mistake spell...) Consider that the party's magic-users aren't every getting Fly because they have Fire Wings. (hahaha) (Spell Ward does need to be higher level or less powerful, imo) Lordships and leading men in combat is nice but it doesn't really apply in a dungeon setting. There's a huge section in the DMG we barely use that covers this and I'm actually curious to see how Paavo will do with a group of red-shirts in a dungeon setting. The sanction on magic is onerous for training but offers no hindrance in a dungeon setting. When Colby is burned at the stake for practicing necromancy it's going to hinder his dungeon delving. New spells for clerics might be nice. But I don't think Ingrid or Dan cast a spell other than Detect Traps and Cure Light Wounds in the current adventure. It will be worse now that we have run out of healing potions. Unceasing Vigilance of the Holy Sentinel was one, I think there was another you either didn't find or didn't translate. I actually made nudges to shift some of the burden of healing onto the magic-users, but nobody seems interested in memorizing a necromantic version of Aid or learning Excruciating Cauterization. Everyone knew going in that those healing waters were finite. I have always considered new spells for magic users similar to a new magic item for other characters. It is not a one-to-one correspondence. (Though in previous campaigns trading a magic item for a new spell was not unheard of.) That went away when we adopted the rule that a magic-user could learn a "free" spell of their choice every level. So magic users getting lots of new spells as well as items only they can use seems imbalanced. I am sure other people see it differently. Many of the new spells require unreplenishable "evil" components. Most of them replicate the effects of the regular spells, just not as well or with unknown side-effects (there's reasons I don't give you the spell description). I'd rather give you two new 2nd level spells of less usefulness than something like Mirror Image, which you'll pull out every encounter. (Fire Wings vs Fly...) Aside from the magic-user specific scrolls/books there are very few items that are not usable by all classes. Honestly, I think everyone has different ideas about game balance because what really imbalances most scenarios for me is primarily weapon specialization and that danged permanent protection from evil which leads to the salamander situation, where you just stroll by the monster and take the treasure and leave without a fight. lol that was such a bad encounter for you guys. |
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Post by Wolfgar on Jan 23, 2012 20:06:11 GMT -5
Of course half of the magic items we get are also not particularly useful for adventuring (carpet of meditation, purring cat sculpture, singing tea cup to name a few). Still magic items and spells are just plain cool to have. Even if you rarely get to use them. Anything really useful is awesome.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jan 24, 2012 8:56:04 GMT -5
I would think that if the actually party had a cleric of the one god, that cleric would feel compelled to report Colby (and the party) to the Inquisition for his keeping banned writings and using the dark arts.
- I have a bunch of new spells for clerics but the party doesn't seem very interested in organized religion and has a stand-offish relationship with the Church authorities.
- Most magic-users are evil because as we all know the Dark Side is the quickest way to power and the Church heavily sanctions magic use in civilized lands. It's only going to get worse with the Inquisition.
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Post by venger on Jan 24, 2012 9:23:10 GMT -5
Consider that the Church is an institution, not an entity to worship.
Someone can be a cleric of the "One God" and not be a part of the Church.
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Post by Bolo on Jan 24, 2012 22:31:01 GMT -5
(my thief subplots are a little light, but that's because they would be solo adventures, I'm working on it guys). Sounds promising. Thanks. |
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