Out of the Frying Pan, Into the Fire?

[Ginger]

So, are we going to cross to the opposite ledge or try to go to the fissure floor/dragon lair?

[Mr. Trommer]

Since there is another dragon and possibly winter wolves I think we probably so get some Endure Cold Spells that will help against a repeat of the breath weapon. We save more in hit points that way than I think and actual heal. I would rather make sure this level is clear before looking for the other dragon to make sure nothing comes at us from behind. We may find the other side empty. Though there may be some of the giants that were throwing boulders still over there. I would expect that they have figured out that the ledge is the only exit for us so will be waiting to nail us with boulders from the other side. If they all have retreated into the hole where the dragon came out then it shouldn't take us much time to check they other side to make sure. I also expect that if we just do the feather fall plan that we will just be nailed by a boulder barrage on the way down and then they will follow us into the hole and we will be attacked from both sides. If we do have to clear out the other side at least we can have another opportunity to rest before going into the hole if need be.

Ask me again in 12:15 after I finish studying.

[Ginger]

It's nighttime, isn't it? They can't target us very well in a blizzard, at night.

[Wolfgar]

I vote for resting again and then heading down to the igloo. I am surprised we haven't seen anyone at the opposite ledge or down at the igloo. Maybe they have an invisible guard set up to watch. Would Raven or Diego be willing to fire across to the other ledge to see if anything is waiting there invisibly? Also they will probably set up an ambush if we try to cross to the other ledge. With our options shrinking it is easier for them to cover our possible next moves. The idea of all of us suddenly dropping to the floor of the crevasse is probably the least likely. If we do go that route we should take some precautions against falling into the sink hole. Maybe tieing ourselves together with rope so hopefully some of the party is clear of the quick snow. How wide is the sink hole? We could try plugging it with - giant bodies, a white dragon, the table, a wall of force or ice. If nothing else we would certainly rouse the other dragon if we start dropping large objects into its cave.

[Wolfgar]

Question for the DM: Will Pass Without Trace allow you to move through deep snow at full movement rate? Do you move across the top of the snow (which seems like the only way you could prevent making tracks)? In which case would you be unaffected by the quick snow? What about ice?

I could convert all three of my druid spells to this to help Al, Raven and Otto move once we reach the bottom of the crevasse. Sound like a good idea?

Also, shouldn't the ring of water walking allow Otto to move over the snow at the bottom of the crevasse. It should have been much easier for him to move around while exploring not counting the wind and visibility factors.

[Dell]

It seems to me that there are two easy ways out of this room - roping across to the other ledge, and feather-falling down to the ground below. On the other side there are likely to be giants and ogres. At the bottom there are probably wolves and a dragon. At our current strength, I'd advise going after the dragon. If we're waiting until we're at full strength, I'd recommend the opposite ledge.

[Wolfgar]

There is also trying to get up to the ledge which is only about 20' above the opening on this side. But again they probably have giants waiting for us.

[Ginger]

There's a ledge up above us? I thought it was sheer straight up 150' to the top of the glacier.

[Dead Greyhawk]

It's nighttime, isn't it? They can't target us very well in a blizzard, at night.

You think it is slightly after midnight. It's still snowing. You radiate light when you go out and about and so are very visible, even with the snow.

Will Pass Without Trace allow you to move through deep snow at full movement rate? Do you move across the top of the snow (which seems like the only way you could prevent making tracks)? In which case would you be unaffected by the quick snow? What about ice?

I think Pass Without Trace would allow normal movement across snow. I'll have to think about ice, since the slipperiness isn't the germane property the spell is working against.

Also, shouldn't the ring of water walking allow Otto to move over the snow at the bottom of the crevasse.

I hadn't considered it at the time.

My recollection of the way that the ring works is that water is as land to you. So walking on ice is like walking on a little bit of sand on rough stone and walking on ocean water is like walking on slowly moving earth. Extrapolating that argument would say that snow would be like grains of sand to you, no? Packed snow would be like walking on the beach below the high tide mark. Loose, blown snow would be like walking in the dunes on the beach. I don't know how far you would sink into it relative to what you'd actually sink into snow. What do you think?

There's a ledge up above us? I thought it was sheer straight up 150' to the top of the glacier.

There is a ledge up and to your relative west. You assume it is the ledge that contains the entryway to the passage that leads to this cave. Above you is 150 feet of ice without a ledge.

[Wolfgar]

admin said:

My recollection of the way that the ring works is that water is as land to you. So walking on ice is like walking on a little bit of sand on rough stone and walking on ocean water is like walking on slowly moving earth. Extrapolating that argument would say that snow would be like grains of sand to you, no? Packed snow would be like walking on the beach below the high tide mark. Loose, blown snow would be like walking in the dunes on the beach. I don't know how far you would sink into it relative to what you'd actually sink into snow. What do you think?

From the description in the DMG it sounds like you can move over snow of any compactness and that when walking on a medium that will hold its shape footprints appear. However the DMG says you are above the surface so you don't actually feel the texture of the medium and you never sink in to it which is different from your description above. I agree that ice should not be treated as water but the specific inclusion of snow in the description would make me think that you should be able to walk across it but leave some evidence of your passage.

[Wolfgar]

Another question for the DM: Would the spell Dig work on the ice of the glacier or the snow in the crevasse? The description only discusses earth but I would think it should work on anything that you can dig with the rate scaled depending on the density similarly to the spade of digging.

We could try tunneling up to the cave above us. Or we could try collapsing the ledge that contains the entryway to the passage that leads to the cave we are currently in. It might catch some giants or at least give them pause about standing anywhere exposed. If we had Winthrop, Oaklock and Dell all cast it simultaneously we could cut up a lot of glacier quickly.

[Dead Greyhawk]

otto said:

Another question for the DM: Would the spell Dig work on the ice of the glacier or the snow in the crevasse? The description only discusses earth but I would think it should work on anything that you can dig with the rate scaled depending on the density similarly to the spade of digging.

This I'm a little less certain about. The spell is pretty explicit that it works on "earth, sand, or mud" and that it is equally effective against each. This would imply to me that there is no density scaling intended. To what extent is the density scaling applicable? Can you dig through steel or iron? How about through solid stone?

Contrast this with the description for the Spade of Colossal Excavation, which says "1 cubic yard of normal earth can be
excavated in 1 round. Every 10 rounds, the user must rest for 5 rounds. Hard pan clay takes twice as long to dig, as does gravel. Loose soil tokes only half as long." Here, the notion that you can shovel rock, at least, is present, through the gravel comment, and a variation in rate occurs based on the density of the soil.

I'd lean towards dig only working on earth, sand, or mud, not stone, ice, or what not (wall of force?), absent some facet of the spell that I'm missing.

[Wolfgar]

Pfiffwin would like to contribute to the party a little more. Having watched Winthrop and Dell in action he thinks using Audible Glamer to make the sound of ice cracking and the ceiling caving in might be an effective technique for distracting a large number of opponents. Given the amount of damage we have already done to the glacier it should be completely believable that more damage is occuring. Especially if it is timed with a fireball or some other spell.

As a show of his further commitment to the party he would like to use the Bracers of Defense that Winthrop is no longer using.

[Ginger]

Audible glamour might be put to better use by the higher level magic users. Its volume level rises along with your spell level. Pfiff can't generate as much noise as a lion's roar, whereas Winthrop can generate the volume of 40 men.

[Wolfgar]

He is offering what he's got. And if there is something else you would rather he do with it just ask. Also I doubt anyone else is going to take a slot to memorize it.

[Ginger]

We'd probably be better served by a light spell put a few inches below the opening into our cave. It'll hopefully draw the fire of the giants so we can escape more easily.