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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jul 6, 2008 19:21:27 GMT -5
I regret that this week ended in a total party kill. Total party kills aren't pleasant for me, and I don't believe they are pleasant for you. I want our game to be enjoyable and your characters to succeed so that the campaign can move forward and a storyline develop. That said, I don't want to bend the game mechanics or make the game not a challenge in order to assure your characters' survival.
It will take some time to adjust to the new power level of the campaign. I am trying to choose pre-generated modules for the appropriate levels. Please be assured that I am not intentionally trying to one-up the party or place the party in situations that will certainly kill them.
I'd like to continue to use this campaign setting next week. I've posted another starting plot to replace the one that led to Jawarl Avignon. I know some of you have put significant thought into your characters and the path you'd like to take them. I'm definitely willing to support new characters that will qualify for the same character class combinations you've been working towards.
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Post by venger on Jul 7, 2008 7:26:55 GMT -5
A couple things contributed to our TPK:
Our inexperience with the new combat mechanics. High dexterity is important. As is knowing when to charge and when not to charge. Running at people with missile weapons is pretty stupid unless you can close before they fire. (see dexterity)
15 days spent on guard-duty and all we saw were a couple boars and a giant skunk. We were incautious and spoiling for some action. The wall surrounding the fortress was only 10' high, yet we charged down a winding gauntlet lined with murder-holes. We attacked without hesitation and without considing the number of opponents we might face. By Kord, it was glorious!
Mushurg is an anagram for Gruumsh! Doh!
1st level characters survive by skill and luck.
The fight was close, the dice just weren't with us.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 7, 2008 8:51:46 GMT -5
A couple things contributed to our TPK: Our inexperience with the new combat mechanics. High dexterity is important. As is knowing when to charge and when not to charge. Running at people with missile weapons is pretty stupid unless you can close before they fire. (see dexterity) 15 days spent on guard-duty and all we saw were a couple boars and a giant skunk. We were incautious and spoiling for some action. The wall surrounding the fortress was only 10' high, yet we charged down a winding gauntlet lined with murder-holes. We attacked without hesitation and without considing the number of opponents we might face. By Kord, it was glorious! Mushurg is an anagram for Gruumsh! Doh! 1st level characters survive by skill and luck. The fight was close, the dice just weren't with us. I definitely had no idea we were entering a dungeon. I assumed we were just going after Sethus. There was really no indication that there was a band of orcs hiding in the ruins. I know we saw the bodies of the dead scholars but I assumed that Sethus would have no problems killing them singlehandedly. We definitely would have taken a different tack if we had a suspicion that it was more than just Sethus. I guess we should have just retreated as soon as we started taking fire. And why again didn't we detect evil on Sethus? And Crommard was more that useless. Also I don't really think the fight was close. They had at least a shaman, a bruiser, Sethus and kobolds still standing. Comparing strengths of the parties in the fight shows that they had a shaman (3+ hd), 1 leader (2+ hd), 3 bruisers (2 hd), 6 orcs (1 hd), and 2 rats (1/2 hd); a combined 18+ hd to our combined 5 levels (discounting the ineffectual Crommard). Even if we spread the orcs out over a number of encounters we would have been unlikely to take them all and then still be able to face Sethus. Assuming this is the standard module for beginning adventurers we either need to increase the party size or spend time taking on single random encounters until we are at least another level higher. The latter will take a long time but I don't think we have the ability to handle the attrition rate of even a small module.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 7, 2008 9:29:05 GMT -5
I think the first problem, that we didn't realize it was a dungeon until it was too late, was a big deal. We should have been more circumspect when sneaking up. We could have approached the citadel from the rear and then headed to the front door, which would have given them less notice.
But I think that no matter what situation we're in, it's going to be rough going if the cleric is the first one to go down. It was also tough adjusting to the different combat rules. It's going to take some time until we get a sense for when to charge and when to move into combat without charging.
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Post by venger on Jul 7, 2008 9:40:48 GMT -5
We definitely would have taken a different tack if we had a suspicion that it was more than just Sethus. I guess we should have just retreated as soon as we started taking fire. Our response to taking fire was to blindly charge our full, or in some cases double, movement rate into the fortress. We weren't careful. And why again didn't we detect evil on Sethus? Admittedly I could have done a better job as a cleric. Should have used Detect Evil, should not have cast that Light spell. Certainly a bone-head maneuver. I wasn't a very good Cedrus either. Comparing strengths of the parties in the fight shows that they had a shaman (3+ hd), 1 leader (2+ hd), 3 bruisers (2 hd), 6 orcs (1 hd), and 2 rats (1/2 hd); a combined 18+ hd to our combined 5 levels (discounting the ineffectual Crommard). Those orcs go down in one hit. 4 hp? AC 7? We all have max hit points. Our fighters had % strength and weapon specialization. We were hitting on 10's and they needed 15's or better in some cases (Baldrick's 2 AC) Both Twix and Adair went down from critical hits. Holmar fumbled. Fluke of the dice. Even if we spread the orcs out over a number of encounters we would have been unlikely to take them all and then still be able to face Sethus. Assuming this is the standard module for beginning adventurers we either need to increase the party size or spend time taking on single random encounters until we are at least another level higher. The latter will take a long time but I don't think we have the ability to handle the attrition rate of even a small module. We took them on all at once in a courtyard full of doors. Holmar (our strongest hitter) and Baldrick (our best AC dude) each fought solo opponents in an adjoining room. Our low AC guys soaked up missile fire and tried to carry the fight. Everyone should have a missile weapon. Maybe we pick up a couple men-at-arms. Or some dogs if we don't want to split the treasure. Draegos had 160 gold on him which does him no good dead.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 7, 2008 10:17:19 GMT -5
Those orcs go down in one hit. 4 hp? AC 7? We all have max hit points. Our fighters had % strength and weapon specialization. We were hitting on 10's and they needed 15's or better in some cases (Baldrick's 2 AC) The bruisers were at least as strong as Holmar and Baldrick in terms of hit points and chance to hit. The regular orcs fought just as well as Draegoes and Adair. Also given our relatively low hit points, the larger number of combatants definitely tilted things to their benefit. It was 6 on 14. Even if they aren't specialized fighters they still have a superior attack rate.
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