The New Math

[Dell]

Some people are unhappy about the way the treasure division is handled, so it may be time to revisit our assumptions on these matters. But before I make any suggestions, I want to see what the other boardmembers think. Are the non-members of the company better off than the members? Do we need to change the way we split the funds and account for the magic items? And what about the absentee members? I don't like to think that all the work I've done is just so some guy I've never met can walk into the bank and drain the account there to pay for his monastery or whatever.

[Ginger]

The NPC's definitely get the best of this arrangement. Frank is in the party to get cash. We're in the Party to have fun role-playing, kick ass, etc. This makes his bargaining position stronger than ours. For example, if I were a fighter, specialized in bastard sword and Frank was the bow specialist, he'd have the swanky equipment instead of me, in addition to the loads of cash he's received.

[Alouicious]

I'd just like to point out that we recently assessed the value of a share from the crushing of the Nerullites at 2000 GP. According to our shareholder meeting, each principal recieves a distribution of 10% of a share for personal use. Therefore each of us, Dell, Raven, Winthrop, and me, should receive a 200 GP disbursement. My aged grandmother will appreciate the stipend.

With respect to the maintenance of our henchmen, Frank and Garvin (and perhaps this druid guy?), it seems to me that maintaining quality help is important. Replacing Frank and Garvin with other sellswords or priests would likely provide us with assistance of lesser experience. Additionally, this lesser quality aid may not be commensurately less expensive. Also, considering that you all, and therefore I as well, have a number of powerful enemies, maintaining good employee relations is paramount for our own safety. I feel it is in our best interests to continue to meet our financial obligations to our current henchmen rather than trying to come up with new hirelings on the cheap.

I strongly suggest that we make a short list of magical to monetary conversions for scrolls, potions, armor, weapons, and what not. So long as we are able to provide a reasoned, unified schedule to our employees, we will likely be able to maintain the impression that we are making a best-faith effort towards them. Again, I believe that trying to reduce the amount of coinage they receive will likely lead to high turnover in positions that we would like to keep filled with experienced individuals.

It had been my understanding when I became a principal that the retention of magical items by the principals grossly outweighed the monetary outlays we made to the various hirelings and henchmen. As was put to me by Raven, we can always get more money by killing more things. Even with our henchmen receiving full shares, I think we still retain more than half of the coinage and valuables we recover, plus use of the magical equipment.

Bluntly, I am more concerned by the rate of Company expenditure on mage specific items, such as new spells, spellbooks, and inks, that provide little obvious direct benefit than I am in paying full shares to our steadfast healer and front line fighter. As far as I can recall, only the invisibility spell has been of clear usefulness, though others may have greater use in the future. If funds are tight, then we might consider restraining our spending on non-essentials.

[Dell]

Hmm... you make some good points, Al. I'm with you on the spells and whatnot. Aside from the identification of items, a lot of that is wasteful...

Why do we have "company funds" anyway? I think having thousands of gold just sitting there for "the company" to use is a silly thing. I say we've been doing it exactly the wrong way. Give most of the money to the members, and then we each pay back 10% to the company for regular expenses - food, rooms at inns, mule and cart rentals... you know, that piddly cheap stuff.

This way, if I want new spells, I'll buy them with my own money. If there's a really expensive spell, Winthrop and I can pool our money and buy it. But if you want to spend your whole share on fine dwarven ale... well, you can do so.

As for the magical items - same thing. They should be split up, but only among the company members. That should be one of the benefits of being a member- non members get cash compensation, but no magic.

I think it's better for everyone to know that what he has is his, and won't be taken from him later on. Frank seems to agree. I mean, did we travel all this way to get The Company's Elven bow? The Company's magic plate mail? Is Winthrop still mad because of the theft of The Company's spellbooks? The senior members of this company own certain items - they should just admit it, and let us newer members pick out some magical items as well.

Of course we'd share the use of these items, for the good of the company... but at the end of the day, it should belong to someone.

[Ginger]

I think we've been going about this the wrong way. Let's discuss the goal before we discuss how we carry it out. What do we want out of a treasure-distribution mechanism?

1. We want an efficient use of resources. This means that magical items should be distributed for maximum effects and that our gold should not be wasted.

2. We want an incentive for people to join the Company. We have to make it so Frank wants to join, because as it is, he does pretty well. If he had joined, he would be exactly as he is now, minus thousands of gold pieces. Part of this will come naturally if we continue with our successful streak. We've killed giants, cleared a large temple of Nerill, and killed a chimera. Except for the one giant getting away (even though we do know where he is and he isn't likely to be going anywhere), we've finished our missions when the enemies were all dead. In the past, we finished our missions when we had to stop fighting to heal, or our enemies had fled. The other part is in us demonstrating that he'll make a ton more cash if he joins.

[Ginger]

So, what's our current "plan" for distributing treasure. (I use the term plan loosely).
1. We total up the coins and appraise the goods to come up with a total.
2. We give associates an even split of the total, and give the partners 10% for personal matters.

The benefit to being a partner instead of an associate is that the sale price of a magical item is rarely worth as much as the actual item. If we found a lightening bolt scroll, it would be "worth" several hundred gold pieces, but it would kill enough monsters over the course of our careers to be worth much more than that.

Unfortunately, that system has broken down because NPCs (particularly Frank) get the benefits of the magical items as well as the cash for them. If the armor (or shield) is his, then what's the benefit of being in the company?

Dell's alternative plan is (or seems to be):
1. We total up the coins and appraise the non-magical goods to come up with a total.
2. Everyone present gets an even share.
3. Company members kick in 10% to our accounts for expenses.
4. Company members divide the magical items.

The benefit to being in the company is clear. Will Frank and Garvin go for it? I'm not as concerned about Garvin, since since we might be able to draft one of those Pelorite "specialists" to join us. Keeping Frank on is more important, especially if that armor is now his.

I like this plan. Partly, because I have little need for cash, so I'll only loan out my money for things that I deem worthwhile, i.e. spells that help in combat instead of spells that help unscrupulous mages hide/steal.

[Dell]

ArrowGuy said:

Dell's alternative plan is (or seems to be):
1. We total up the coins and appraise the non-magical goods to come up with a total.
2. Everyone present gets an even share.
3. Company members kick in 10% to our accounts for expenses.
4. Company members divide the magical items.

That's essentially it. There will probably have to be some kind of extra compensation to the people we hire for the the magical items... I know that's how Garvin sees it. And Garvin can detect magical items on his own, so we can't lie to him like we could someone else.

ArrowGuy said:

The benefit to being in the company is clear. Will Frank and Garvin go for it? I'm not as concerned about Garvin, since since we might be able to draft one of those Pelorite "specialists" to join us. Keeping Frank on is more important, especially if that armor is now his.

I like this plan. Partly, because I have little need for cash, so I'll only loan out my money for things that I deem worthwhile, i.e. spells that help in combat instead of spells that help unscrupulous mages hide/steal.

See, this is exactly why this is a great plan. If you think it would be a good idea to get a certain spell, you can help us mages buy it. If you don't, you can invest in caravans like Frank, or buy a house. If you want to send away to the elven lands for a specially made bow, you can do so without having to check with anyone. And if you get tired of adventuring with us, and want to join the Black Hand, you can do so without having to leave your armor and weapons behind.

More flexibility is a good deal for everybody.

[Ginger]

Here's the only problem I see...
What if we had this plan in operation when we raided the temple of Neruill? We'd have split the non-magical items around, and we'd all have received 1500 GP. Then we'd have had leftover: scrolls to Neruill, Plate +?, Shield +?, the staff, potion and something else, which I've forgotten.

The potion was the only thing of value. Now the staff is worthwhile for Liato. But the armor, shield and scrolls would have been sitting in our lair collecting dust untill we got a new company member to use them. If we let Frank and Garvin use them, even if they're not members, then we'll be undermining our own plan. If we don't, then we'll all feel really stupid when everyone dies because Frank's AC was one higher than it would have been otherwise.

We might be able to mitigate that by making associates pay the 10% fee also. Or maybe 5% or 15%.

[Alouicious]

1. We want an efficient use of resources. This means that magical items should be distributed for maximum effects and that our gold should not be wasted.

I agree. Especially on the Gold should not be wasted part.

2. We want an incentive for people to join the Company. We have to make it so Frank wants to join, because as it is, he does pretty well. If he had joined, he would be exactly as he is now, minus thousands of gold pieces. ... The other part is in us demonstrating that he'll make a ton more cash if he joins.

I agree that there is little incentive for people to join the Company. I can sum up in two words the only incentive we have at the moment: magic items. I know that I haven't seen any gold pieces, so demonstrating that one will make a ton more cash by joining will be a tough sell.


The benefit to being a partner instead of an associate is that the sale price of a magical item is rarely worth as much as the actual item. If we found a lightening bolt scroll, it would be "worth" several hundred gold pieces, but it would kill enough monsters over the course of our careers to be worth much more than that.

Also, that scroll would be "worth" hundreds of gold pieces to me, but is invaluable to Dell or Winthrop, an argument against splitting the magic items up amongst us.

Unfortunately, that system has broken down because NPCs (particularly Frank) get the benefits of the magical items as well as the cash for them. If the armor (or shield) is his, then what's the benefit of being in the company?

I agree. No more magic items to associates! More magic items for us.

The potion was the only thing of value. Now the staff is worthwhile for Liato. But the armor, shield and scrolls would have been sitting in our lair collecting dust untill we got a new company member to use them.

If I understand the above plan correctly, they wouldn't sit in our lair, but instead be the property of one of the principals. I'd likely sell or trade something that I couldn't use for something I could. Why would I let it sit around? Plus, if I understand the above plan, no new company member would get those magic items because we would have already divvied them up between us, right?

We might be able to mitigate that by making associates pay the 10% fee also. Or maybe 5% or 15%.

Speaking from experience, that's not going to fly with mercenaries ever. You are asking people to pay you for them to join you. Plus, we have that horrible reputation with respect to paying people that Jareth has given us to live down.

[Dell]

It seems a pretty clean and simple solution. Non-members get money. Members get money, plus magic items. Items are divided based on who can use the item best and who wants it most. The non-members will probably want a jucier cut of the cash to compensate for not having a shot at the items... which is fine with me. I recommend giving them an extra percentage of the take - that way we don't have to deal with estimating the value of a bunch of magical items that might end up to be complete crap.

For example... the plate mail and shield - out of the four members on that mission, only Raven can use them, so he would get them. The Nerulite amulets that the priests wore... anyone can use them, but no one wanted them except for me, so they would be mine. Clerical scrolls, no member can use, so whoever wanted them - or whoever got the least amount of items otherwise - would get them for his share, so he could take them and sell them. Unfortunately, selling prayers to Nerull would be unwise, so those are essentially worthless. The snake staff, no member can use to it's full potential - but winthrop fights with a staff, and he can always hit someone with it. It's his, and he can loan it out, sell it to the silent one, or even give it away if he feels like it.

If non-members want magical items, they can buy them from us with all that damn money we've been giving them.

[Alouicious]

I will not accept this clause. Items are divided based on who can use the item best and who wants it most. This seems to me to be a way to make sure that the dwarven fighter doesn't get anything except potions, and that the human fighter racks up piles of magical armor and the mages rack up magical scrolls, wands and what not. When they were all in the company, rather than personal, I could, in theory, get the lion from Dell and use it, or get the ring from Winthrop and use it. Like the way the ring of influence moves around between the members of the Company. Now, those items will not move around and I'll be stiffed.

I think we should either pick items in random order or get items by drawing out of a hat. We can always trade them amongst us later.

[liato]

As someone who has little interest in personal wealth (although I would like to buy up some land for preservation purposes) and who has spent time observing the citifolk and their material demands I think the company was closer to being on the right track than it seemed.

If the new plan is to accurately assess all magic items add that value to the gold found and then distribute it equally there's no reason to be a member.

I think the model CBS should be thinking about is the way pirates handle it which is appropraitely at least part of its history.

There are different tiers of membership. Those tiers receive different payouts. It would be absurd for pirates to be distributing their treasure and for the captain and officers to receive the same money as the guy mopping the deck.

So why would people travel with CBS if they weren't getting an equal share? Because they were making more money then they would alone or with a different group. Not making enough cash, Frank or Gavin? Go raid the Nerul temple yourself and good luck with that.

While it is important to treat your companions fairly, that doesn't mean equally. People who travel with the blue sun should be doing so because one day they hope to join and become full members.

The CBS problem is not that they aren't treating their companions equally it's that they aren't treating them fairly. Their companions, for the most part, haven't even insisted on an equal share.

I think a weighted share system would work well for this.

So here's the rules I would suggest:

1) No magic item ownership for non-members.

2) Magic items will be assessed at the following rate (or something similar) for loot purposes.

Exceptional - $10,000
Powerful - $5,000
Average - $1,000
Weak - $100

Magic armor and weapons are probably powerful. Scrolls and potions probably fall into the weak category. Adjust the prices and categories as everyone sees fit. This should drastically reduce arguing since you just have to argue about categories not actual value. Non-members will then be excited by finding magic items because they'll immediately know how much money that means for them.

3) Total loot is the sum of all assessed magic items, all gems and jewelry, and all coinage.

4) Loot is distributed based on a weighted share system.
The sum of the loot is dividided by all applicable shares. then each person gets paid the value of the share times the shares they have. Receiving a magic item counts as a share of cash equal to the assessed value of the item (e.g. if you get a sword thats like getting 5,000 gold)

A member or non-member's shares may be adjusted immediately after distributing loot.

Here's a suggested share scheme:
a) +1 share per character level. 1 share for the maximum character level if dual/multi classed.
b) +2 shares if you are a member
c) +1 share if you are an officer
d) +1 share per 5 adventures with the CBS. An adventure is considered over when loot is distributed.
e) additional shares can be by officer vote.

5) If a member isn't there for all of the sessions they get a weighted share based on number of sessions attended. If you are there 3 out of 4 times you're share's are reduced to 75%.

6) The company members vote on when to distribute loot.

I haven't thought too hard about the exact numbers but something like that should work.

Here's roughly what the shares would look like if we started right now:
I've given the active members a 2 share tenure bonus.

Raven (6+2+1+2) = 11
Winthrop (6+2+1+2) = 11
Al (4+2+2) = 8
Dell (5+2+1+2) = 10
Rook (5 + 2 + 0 + 0) = 7
Remo (3 + 2 + 0 +0) = 5
Frank (4 + 0 + 0 + 2) = 6
Liato (2 + 0 + 0 + 0) = 2

If we were dividing 10,000 loot from the last adventure it would look like this (assuming a one session adventure):

Raven 11 * 1/1 = 11 (sesssions)
Winthrop 11 * 0/1 = 0
Al 8 * 0/1 = 0
Dell 10 * 1/1 = 10
Rook 7 * 0/1 = 0
Remo 5 * 0/1 = 0
Frank 6 * 1/1 = 6
Liato 2 * 1/1 = 2

Total adventure shares = 27

10,000 / 27 = 370 per share

Raven gets 4,000
...
Frank gets 2,220
Liato gets 740

So Frank gets half of what raven does.
But here's why frank should be okay with that anyway. Liato only gets 740! Raven may be getting some of Frank's money, but Frank is getting some of Liato's money.
Frank gets 22% of total money. There were 4 people. That's pretty darn close to equal.

If he were a member...
Total shares would be 29 each share is 345

Now Raven gets 3795
Now frank gets 2760

Here's the beauty for him. If he were a member he'd be getting 27% of the loot! That's more than equal. Frank should be a member.

If the party is:
Winthrop
Raven
Dell
Al
Frank
Franks share looks like this:

46 total shares.
Frank has 6. Now he's only getting 13% as a nonmember or about 17% as a member. equal would be 20%

But we're talking about a 4th level guy travelling with 2 experienced 6th level guys. He shouldn't be geting a full 20%. If you add Liato to the party. Franks percentage goes from 13% to 12%. But an equal share goes from 20% to about 17%. As a member he'd be getting 16% or almost exactly the same as he would if you just chopped it up.

And when we hire a brand spanking new 1st level fighter
Frank will be happy because he will be getting much more than him.

And if Frank never wants to be a member, that's okay, too. If he stays with the company for a long time his tenure bonus and character level will mostly offeset the membership bonus. At the current settings membership and officer ship amounts to around a 20 to 30% bonus for being a member. That seems like a pretty reasonable amount.

If you force members to tithe 10% of their take to the company then they are still making out over being a non-member.

So, to reiterate:

Why would you want to be a member? Because you get better treasure and you make more money than non-members.

Why would you want to be a non-member? Because you get to adventure with people who are more powerful than you which allows you to get a smaller share of a greater total. Even at a reduced share that's a profit for you. I'd rather have 10% of 30,000 than 20% of 10,000.

Plus you are rewarded for service since the share system makes sure that permanent non-members get more money than new or temporary non-members.

Furthermore, if a new unproven mercenary thinks that they should be getting the same wage as a guy tossing fireballs or a guy putting an arrow through each giant's eyesocket they are kidding themselves.
(If the party does want to hire really powerful NPCs they can always grant tenure).

[Dell]

Okay Al... I suppose I don't see the point of getting an item that you can't use, but I can understand your position. And even if I couldn't, I understand that you can cut me in half with a battle axe if I argue with you.

Here's some other systems that I came up with:

Drafting: Each member picks an item they want, in turn. From first to last, then last to first. We all take turns going first.

"Secret Santa": Much like the drafting system, except you draw another member's name from the hat, and pick the items that you want them to have. Hopefully the other person likes you, or you get a huge load of evil amulets as your payoff.

Pay to Play: Recovered items are "auctioned" off among the members, using the shares of the treasure from said adventure. All funds "paid" for the item go into the company fund. So if you really wanted an item, you could spend most of your money to get it... but then you'd miss out on the other items. And if you don't get any items, you end up keeping more money. Fair all around.

magcitem.bat: Items are put into batches of roughly equivalent value, then distributed to members at random. Batches would have an assortment of items usable by different people, so no matter what batch you get you should be able to get some use from it.

------------------------

As far as the non-members - instead of magical items, they get an extra wad of gold (say, 1000). If they want to join the company (and get some magic items) they have to contribute some amount of gold (say, 3000) to the company fund, and be approved by the current members. So after three or four successful adventures, people would be able to afford to join the company, and share in the riches.

And if you worry about being able to afford to pay them that much - well, magical items can be quite valuable.

Frank is exempt from this payment, because he essentially paid for his membership by having the principal members raised from the dead. Since the board has already approved him, he can join or not join as he wishes.

[Dell]

The druid has too many rules.

Besides, I've head that once you're REALLY good, people just flock to you and want to adventure with you because of your reputation as a great fighter, mighty wizard, or whatever.

[liato]

Picking magic items.

How about a queue system. It's a little different than drafting.

Order is randomly determined the first time.

After that there is a stable queue.

When there's a new item whoever is first can either keep it or pass. As soon as someone decides to keep an item they go to the end of the line. But they can keep passing. Those people at the end of the line might not get the best items but they get a lot of items.

Basically you have to make the choice between the chance to get good items vs. actually getting weaker items.

If you want to exempt scrolls or potions that might make sense.

[liato]

6 rules is too many? Mages are so easy to confuse.

It's a long post, but the only real important rule is the share system.

a) +1 share per character level. 1 share for the maximum character level if dual/multi classed.
b) +2 shares if you are a member
c) +1 share if you are an officer
d) +1 share per 5 adventures with the CBS. An adventure is considered over when loot is distributed.
e) additional shares can be by officer vote.

[Dell]

Random distribution would work. You know, we could draw cards, or roll dice to see who gets what.

[Dell]

I don't like rules.

Are you Lawful or something?

[Ginger]

Here's what I think about when we're getting loot after a fight: How much more likely is it now that I will survive future fights and how much more likely is it now that we'll get even more loot in future fights. Obviously, getting a kick ass magical bow would be really good. But getting a kick ass magical axe would probably be just as good, even though I couldn't use it. Finding a lighteningbolt scroll would probably be just as good, since it would be really effective in battle when fireball just won't do. That's why I'm not very upset when we get a lot of cool stuff we can't use.

Other than that, I do get annoyed at the non-specific item sharing. The lion statue, the ring of human influence, the rings of protection don't seem to have been allocated according to any system. I don't really mind, since I have the wisdom necklace for no particular reason. I just said "If no one else is going to wear it, I might as well grab it." If Al wants it, he can have it, since his perception is lower than mine (assuming that it would bump him up one. If it wouldn't, it's probably worth more to me, since I do get additional perception).

[Ginger]

liato said:

6 rules is too many? Mages are so easy to confuse.

It's a long post, but the only real important rule is the share system.

a) +1 share per character level. 1 share for the maximum character level if dual/multi classed.
b) +2 shares if you are a member
c) +1 share if you are an officer
d) +1 share per 5 adventures with the CBS. An adventure is considered over when loot is distributed.
e) additional shares can be by officer vote.

I really like systems like this, but I think that anything explicitly based on level might be to meta-gamey. To a great extent, it's obvious to all who the powerful characters are and who the weak characters are. But I highly doubt that Frank (lvl. 4), Al (lvl. 5) and Garvin (lvl. 5) would be happy sharing an equal share of the loot with Dell (lvl 4/5) based on level. Dell's contributions might just be too subtle for them to notice.

[Dell]

ArrowGuy said:

Other than that, I do get annoyed at the non-specific item sharing. The lion statue, the ring of human influence, the rings of protection don't seem to have been allocated according to any system.

Winthrop gave me the ring to use. The dagger I have because I'm the only one that uses daggers, and the longsword you let me have when you found a better longsword - if I recall rightly, you offered it to Frank, but he refused because he uses a heavier sword.

The only other thing I have is the lion, which I made my case for carrying early on. In case you need it repeated - I am crap in combat (Winthrop and I are equal in melee skill), and not yet powerful enough to cast really deadly spells. The time that another member would spend fumbling in his pack for the lion and then saying the command word is equal to: 2 deadly arrows fired, 2 mighty chops with an axe, or 1 fireball.

Most of the time, using the lion would be one of the least useful things you could do. It's far more useful that most of the other things I can do, so that's why I have it. Those are the only magic items I have acquired as a member of the company.

[Ginger]

Dell said:

Winthrop gave me the ring to use. The dagger I have because I'm the only one that uses daggers, and the longsword you let me have when you found a better longsword - if I recall rightly, you offered it to Frank, but he refused because he uses a heavier sword.

The only other thing I have is the lion, which I made my case for carrying early on. In case you need it repeated - I am crap in combat (Winthrop and I are equal in melee skill), and not yet powerful enough to cast really deadly spells. The time that another member would spend fumbling in his pack for the lion and then saying the command word is equal to: 2 deadly arrows fired, 2 mighty chops with an axe, or 1 fireball.

Most of the time, using the lion would be one of the least useful things you could do. It's far more useful that most of the other things I can do, so that's why I have it. Those are the only magic items I have acquired as a member of the company.

I think that's right, I just want to make sure there's no lingering hostility. I know Al feels bad that he doesn't get a lot of the cool trinkets that we have.

[Ginger]

liato said:

6 rules is too many? Mages are so easy to confuse.

It's a long post, but the only real important rule is the share system.

a) +1 share per character level. 1 share for the maximum character level if dual/multi classed.
b) +2 shares if you are a member
c) +1 share if you are an officer
d) +1 share per 5 adventures with the CBS. An adventure is considered over when loot is distributed.
e) additional shares can be by officer vote.

Simplify it to two rules:
a) 1 share per level, counting the lower level for multi-classed characters
Dell will soon be 4/6. No one in the company will think that he's worth the same, in a fight, as Winthrop and I. Frank will certainly not feel like he's the least valuable member of the company. He'll probably take offence as it is, being grouped with Dell.

b) 2 shares for a member
I like this as is.

I think we should get rid of C, since we don't have officers.

I think D is more worthwhile as a guide for when a person is sufficiently worthy to become a member.

So, the breakdown for the Chimera adventure would be:
Raven: 8/20 = 2/5
Dell: 6/20=3/10
Frank: 4/20=1/5
Liato: 2/20=1/10

That looks fair.

[Dell]

What a shock, you get the biggest share and it looks fair to you!

I may not be worth the same *in a fight* as you, but I am an expert in opening locks, disarming traps, etc. If you're all of a sudden not afraid of poison traps anymore, then that's fine. If you want to bash open every chest you come across, destroying the fragile items inside, then that's fine. If you want to walk into an ambush because there's no one scouting ahead, and you're clanking in armor and shining light everywhere, then that's fine.

But if you're going to keep on asking me "check this for traps, open this lock, risk instant death via poison," then I am gonna get paid for all my skills...

For multiclass, we take the average of the levels, rounding up. So now, at 4/5, I get 5th level pay. And at 4/6... I still get 5th level pay. You'll make 7th level before I make 6 in thief, anyway. 3 attacks a round, man! Well, as soon as you buy a new longbow, anyway...

If Frank complains... well, if he had accepted membership, he'd have a say in how it goes. I bet Frank would want it based on total number of kills.

[liato]

The reason we want some sort of a tenure system is to keep Rook and Remo from coming and taking a full member share.

Since members should still tithe 10% to the party inactive adventurers will eventually lose their share. My recommended system may be too fast. Maybe every 10 adventures. Or maybe every 3 months of active game time.

Plus if you hire a new fighter equal to frank that fighter should make less money than frank. I think "because he's been with us for a while" is a reasonable answer as to why the new guy will make less.

The nice thing about this system is it can always be adjusted just by giving extra shares. If someone is really good and really insistent we can up their share easily. The nice thing is that everyone knows exactly how much they will be getting before they put their life on the line. As long as it's transparant I think NPCs will like the setup.

We can finess the meta game part for levels by upping peoples shares when they train or "feel stronger". For NPCs where we don't know their level we can just guess and then adjust it once we find out. "You're stronger than we thought. You get an extra share. You are weaker than we thought. We're not upping your share next time you train."

[Dell]

The reason we want some sort of a tenure system is to keep Rook and Remo from coming and taking a full member share.

Easy enough to fix. Just vote to throw them off. Or, we can get rid of the Company of the Blue Sun - liquidate all it's accounts. Then, we form a brand new company, the BluSun Company. Or we could call it the Company of No Homers. If we don't want someone to get our money, they aren't going to get our money.

[Ginger]

Dell said:

What a shock, you get the biggest share and it looks fair to you!

I may not be worth the same *in a fight* as you, but I am an expert in opening locks, disarming traps, etc. If you're all of a sudden not afraid of poison traps anymore, then that's fine. If you want to bash open every chest you come across, destroying the fragile items inside, then that's fine. If you want to walk into an ambush because there's no one scouting ahead, and you're clanking in armor and shining light everywhere, then that's fine.

But if you're going to keep on asking me "check this for traps, open this lock, risk instant death via poison," then I am gonna get paid for all my skills...

For multiclass, we take the average of the levels, rounding up. So now, at 4/5, I get 5th level pay. And at 4/6... I still get 5th level pay. You'll make 7th level before I make 6 in thief, anyway. 3 attacks a round, man! Well, as soon as you buy a new longbow, anyway...

If Frank complains... well, if he had accepted membership, he'd have a say in how it goes. I bet Frank would want it based on total number of kills.

Now that Garvin's level 5, Frank will simply not accept any judgement that he contributes the least of all of the people in the party. He's got good ability scores and a ton of HP. His strenth is also the easiest to understand.

I think that having a thief/scount with magical abilities is good. Frank might not agree. Al might not agree. Seeing the benefits of a guy who throws fireballs is easy. Seeing the benefits from a guy who protects you from hypothetical traps isn't.

[Ginger]

Do we just want to add a loyalty premium? Other than that, I don't think we should discourage new people from hiring on. If we get a 4th level fighter to sign on, I'd have no qualms about paying him as much as Frank. If Frank has a problem with that, he can join the company, he's earned it.

[Dell]

A loyalty bonus doesn't sound necessary - that's just more rules. You and Winthrop can give Frank some extra cash because he saved you from being a rotting corpse in a pirate lair, and you kind of owe him. Hell, I'll give him cash because he let me stay at his place when I was fresh out of jail. So you can put some rules in place, and then find ways around the rules for special situations. Rules aren't good for everything, you know.

[Ginger]

How about we adopt the following by-law...
All CBS members who do not fight with the rest of the Company for a period of one month (game time) are automatically expelled from the Company unless they receive specific permission for a leave of absence from the rest of the members.


We can make it effectively immediately, or even retroactively, to kick out all of the no-shows. We can mail out a letter to Chumley giving him an updated roster, so Serrin won't give all of our money to his monestary.