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Post by venger on Jul 11, 2008 8:22:08 GMT -5
Thief Skill RulesThieves and those classes with Thief-like abilities (Assassin, Bard, and Monk) may elect to allocate thieving skill points rather than accept the standard allotments. This is performed in the following manner. The base starting percentages for classes with Thief-like abilities are: Pick Pockets 15% Open Locks 10% Find/Remove Traps 5% Move Silently 10% Hide in Shadows 5% Hear Noise 15% Climb Walls 60% Read Languages 0%
To determine the initial value of each skill, start with the base scores listed above. To these base scores, add (or subtract) any appropriate modifiers for race, Dexterity, and armor worn. The scores arrived at in the preceding paragraph do not reflect the effort a thief has spent honing his skills. To simulate this extra training, all 1st level thieves receive 65 discretionary percentage points that they can add to their base scores. (Assassins receive these points at 3rd level. Monks receive 50 discretionary points at 1st level.) No more than 30 points can be assigned to any single skill. Other than this restriction, the player can distribute the points however he wants, though a skill less than 1% can never be used. Each time the thief rises a level in experience, the player receives another 35 points to distribute. (Monks receive 25 points per level.) No more than 15 points per level can be assigned to a single skill, and no skill can be raised above 95 percent.
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Post by venger on Jul 11, 2008 8:28:58 GMT -5
So the current party makeup, from what I see, looks like this: Cleric of Jascar Cleric of Bralm/MU Fighter (melee specialist) Fighter (bow specialist?) Monk Interestingly, Bralm doesn't grant "fire spells." So no heat metal, flame blade, wall of fire, flame strike, etc. Is she going to take issue with one of her cleric/magic-users casting fireball?
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 11, 2008 9:04:42 GMT -5
Interestingly, Bralm doesn't grant "fire spells." So no heat metal, flame blade, wall of fire, flame strike, etc. Is she going to take issue with one of her cleric/magic-users casting fireball? I had the same thought. However I noticed that the description of the clerics of Xerbo says His clergy may never use spells or magic items involving fire Bralm is definitely less restrictive. I would think a cleric of Bralm could use a scroll for another deity that involves fire but a cleric of Xerbo could not. Access to fire based magic is fine, but Bralm doesn't have the power to grant those spells. Also second level spells are not granted by the deity so you should still have access to Heat Metal and Flame Blade.
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Post by Dell on Jul 11, 2008 9:36:34 GMT -5
So the party, including planned class changing, looks like this? Cleric of Jascar -> Fighter Cleric of Bralm/MU Fighter (melee specialist) -> Thief -> Bard Fighter (bow specialist?) Monk -> MU So once Lee changes to thief, David becomes the front-line fighter. And once Lee is a competent thief, the Monk can switch to MU. Of course, we can always hire NPCs once we get a little dough. Interestingly, Bralm doesn't grant "fire spells." So no heat metal, flame blade, wall of fire, flame strike, etc. Is she going to take issue with one of her cleric/magic-users casting fireball? As a sign of my devoutness, I'm not going to use any fire based MU spells, either. With Druid, Cleric, and MU spells to pick from, I need something to cut down my choices.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 11, 2008 13:13:25 GMT -5
I'm a full time cleric. You "characters with two classes" are too fancy for me. By the time Lee becomes a thief, I'll have a fighter henchman. And I'll be able to shape change once per day into a 7 HD monster.
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Post by Dell on Jul 11, 2008 15:10:40 GMT -5
By the time Lee becomes a thief, I'll have a fighter henchman. And I'll be able to shape change once per day into a 7 HD monster. And your henchman can mount you. Winthrop, a mage, Serrin, a monk, Raven, a warrior, and Ross, a half-elven warrior priest of Pelor... Rook, being a priest of Cuthbert... If we count the multiclass characters twice, we get: Old: MU, Monk, Fighter, Fighter, Cleric, Cleric New: MU, Monk, Fighter, Fighter, Cleric, Cleric I'm satisfied...
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Post by Ginger on Jul 11, 2008 15:30:46 GMT -5
Old: MU, Monk, Fighter, Fighter, Cleric, Cleric New: MU, Monk, Fighter, Fighter, Cleric, Cleric I'm satisfied... Kind of eerie.
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Post by venger on Jul 12, 2008 20:31:21 GMT -5
So the party, including planned class changing, looks like this? Cleric of Jascar Cleric of Bralm/MU Fighter (melee specialist) -> Thief -> Bard Cleric of Vatun-> Fighter Monk -> MU I want 3 levels (3001xp) of cleric, then dual-class to fighter. Is that going to break the party?
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 14, 2008 8:34:41 GMT -5
With a 14 intelligence it is going to take probably 6 levels to get it high enough to dual class to magic user. If I am able to do this in 5 levels then I will switch to magic user then. Otherwise I will switch to fighter at 5th level and progress to 6th level in fighter before switching to magic user. The experience points to go from 5th to 6th level monk isn't much less than 6 levels in fighter and you don't really gain much at 6th level in monk (feign death). Also I will get a lot more percentile increases, a better hit dice at 6th level and weapon specialization.
I could switch from monk to fighter earlier but then I wouldn't get the cool 5th level ability to be unaffected by slow and haste.
What do you think?
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Post by venger on Jul 14, 2008 9:20:07 GMT -5
With a 14 intelligence it is going to take probably 6 levels to get it high enough to dual class to magic user. If I am able to do this in 5 levels then I will switch to magic user then. Otherwise I will switch to fighter at 5th level and progress to 6th level in fighter before switching to magic user. The experience points to go from 5th to 6th level monk isn't much less than 6 levels in fighter and you don't really gain much at 6th level in monk (feign death). Also I will get a lot more percentile increases, a better hit dice at 6th level and weapon specialization. I could switch from monk to fighter earlier but then I wouldn't get the cool 5th level ability to be unaffected by slow and haste. What do you think? 7/8 monk/magic-user. Superior Master - AC 5, Move: 21 Attks: 3/2 3-9 dmg At 7th level the monk gains the ability to heal damage on his or her body. The amount of damage which can be healed is 2-5 hit points (d4 + 1) This may be done once per day. 5th level monk -> 6th level fighter is 10,000 less XP than 7th level monk. 8th level magic-user is 8,000 less than 7th level monk!
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Post by Ginger on Jul 14, 2008 9:33:47 GMT -5
Consider changing from monk at 4th, which is where you get the ability to fall 20' and where you get the ability to save for none instead of half. It's also where your saving throws will jump up. Your monk AC also doesn't change between 4th and 5th level. It might be worth forgoing the immunity to slow, which was neat, but Jasper didn't get much use out of it in the year or two he had the ability.
Regarding saving throws, arrow dodging is a monk class ability. Does that mean you can only use the monk's petrification saving throw or the best available from your other classes?
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 14, 2008 11:34:06 GMT -5
7/8 monk/magic-user. Superior Master - AC 5, Move: 21 Attks: 3/2 3-9 dmg At 7th level the monk gains the ability to heal damage on his or her body. The amount of damage which can be healed is 2-5 hit points (d4 + 1) This may be done once per day. 5th level monk -> 6th level fighter is 10,000 less XP than 7th level monk. 8th level magic-user is 8,000 less than 7th level monk! I would worry that I could roll bad percentiles at 6th and 7th level and still not have the intelligence to dual class. I want to become a magic user as early as possible. By switching to fighter I have a much better chance of gaining the required intelligence. I think if I switch at 5th level I will move up a category on the cleric combat table as well as the thief savings throws table. That will make it easier to hit people with my fist. And the extra thief skills won't hurt.
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Post by Dell on Jul 14, 2008 11:45:28 GMT -5
I see few benefits in switching to fighter. Switching to thief/acrobat would be more useful.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 14, 2008 12:42:40 GMT -5
Do you need to finish dual classing as a fighter before you switch to magic user? Could you get 5 levels in monk, then get 2 in fighter and then switch to magic user and just lose the fighter abilities you got once you became a 6th level magic user?
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 14, 2008 13:00:58 GMT -5
Do you need to finish dual classing as a fighter before you switch to magic user? Could you get 5 levels in monk, then get 2 in fighter and then switch to magic user and just lose the fighter abilities you got once you became a 6th level magic user? I asked that in the House Rules Dual Classing thread. B. You would not be able to change class for a third time before surpassing the first class's level in the second class. Thus, the 7/5 Fighter/Cleric could not become a magic user until the cleric class reached 8th level and would not gain access to either the fighter or cleric abilities until reaching 9th level magic user.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 14, 2008 13:04:37 GMT -5
I see few benefits in switching to fighter. Switching to thief/acrobat would be more useful. That would require increasing my dexterity as well. My strength is already high enough that I can dual class to fighter without expending any levels increasing it.
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Post by venger on Jul 14, 2008 13:06:48 GMT -5
I would worry that I could roll bad percentiles at 6th and 7th level and still not have the intelligence to dual class. I want to become a magic user as early as possible. By switching to fighter I have a much better chance of gaining the required intelligence. I think if I switch at 5th level I will move up a category on the cleric combat table as well as the thief savings throws table. That will make it easier to hit people with my fist. And the extra thief skills won't hurt. It took Antonus 8th level to make 3 points of INT. I would say stick it out as a monk for the benefits in the long-run. Sure you might end up a 9th level magic-user before you can use your monk powers... but you'll be extremely awesome. Otherwise switch at 2nd or 3rd and take as many fighter hit dice as you can before going to magic-user. Much better to have a couple d10s boosting your HP than the 2d4 and the weak 4th-6th level monk abilities.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 14, 2008 15:26:19 GMT -5
Well, I'd advice switching to fighter at 4 or switching directly to MU at 7. Just wait and see what you roll. Heck, maybe you'll have something happen to permanently decrease an attribute which would make all this moot anyway.
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Post by venger on Jul 14, 2008 15:59:54 GMT -5
Heck, maybe you'll have something happen to permanently decrease an attribute which would make all this moot anyway. Even better - we meet some level draining undead. Send up the unarmored monk!
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jul 14, 2008 20:44:00 GMT -5
Regarding saving throws, arrow dodging is a monk class ability. Does that mean you can only use the monk's petrification saving throw or the best available from your other classes? Monk's petrification saving throw only.
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Post by Ginger on Jul 17, 2008 8:31:53 GMT -5
So, after our long discussion about dual classing out of monk, we should probably decide what to do next. Assault the grouping of buildings? Bypass it and head straight to the ruin? I think we should use our monk to scout out the buildings so we know what we're dealing with. Maybe we could ambush one of their patrols to whittle down their forces.
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2008 10:34:59 GMT -5
I'll be out at the start this week but I am up for some scouting. Kazan can always out run anything that attacks.
Kazan should climb back up the tree and see if there is any movement near the huts or the ruins. If he doesn't see anything after an hour then we head down to get a closer look at the huts. It looked pretty muddy around the huts so Renn should be able to see tracks.
If we do see movement then Kazan could try to lure some hobgoblins away and Morvan can use Entangle again. Getting a prisoner that we can actually interrogate will be useful.
Once we do head for the ruins we should do at least a day of scouting before entering them. That will give us a chance to see what if anything is lurking around.
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Post by Mr. Trommer on Jul 17, 2008 15:06:43 GMT -5
As a side note, do we want to post a "Cast of Characters" in the "Story So Far" section for those that may be reading from afar?
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Post by Wolfgar on Jul 17, 2008 17:02:15 GMT -5
What are these "rough directions" we're supposed to have? I assume they are more than - go to Fort Guy, cross the river and look around.
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Post by Dead Greyhawk on Jul 18, 2008 20:01:58 GMT -5
What are these "rough directions" we're supposed to have? I assume they are more than - go to Fort Guy, cross the river and look around. It's near the top, and there's water at the monastery, if you need it. Watch out for the blasts of steam from the hill.
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Post by venger on Jul 19, 2008 12:10:26 GMT -5
So, after our long discussion about dual classing out of monk, we should probably decide what to do next. Assault the grouping of buildings? Bypass it and head straight to the ruin? I think we should use our monk to scout out the buildings so we know what we're dealing with. Maybe we could ambush one of their patrols to whittle down their forces. I don't like the huts. Who knows what lives there. Or how many. If the monk scouts and discovers hostiles we should have an ambush set up on his return route. I think the ruin is the best bet.
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